What if you find a watch in the sand

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Question:

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself? Of course, no sane person would say the watch just happened to emerge from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop from the metals that lay buried in the earth. The watch must have a manufacturer. If a watch tells an accurate time, we expect the manufacturer must be intelligent. Blind chance cannot produce a working watch. But what else tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and the sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientistscan publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspaper, but who regulated the timings of sunrise and sunset? If a watch cannot work without an intelligent maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork regularity? Could this occur by itself? Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from the earth. A distances that averages 93 million miles. If it get much closer, the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away, the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible. Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance. Withuot the sun, plants would not grow. Then animals and humans wouls starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us? We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun energy and its light to see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a break for the heat, we need the cool of the night and we need the lights to go out so we may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide what we need? Moreover, if we had only the warmth of the sun and the protection of the atmosphere we would want something more-beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and protection, yet we design them also to look beautiful/knowing our need for beauty, the designer of the sunrise and the sunset also made the view of them to be simply breathtaking. The Creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that He does not exist. What would they think if they a watch in the desert? An accurate and working watch? A beautiful designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker. One who apperciates beauty. Such is God who made us. Peace be with you What is a muslim? Simple: To be a Muslim you must: 1) Believe in a One God that is all powerful, and the Creator of everything there is. 2) Believe that God has contacted us via messages by His messengers: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and finally Mohammed. In addition to many others. 3) Believe that the Quran is God’s literal word. Meaning each word comes from Him. That can be verified by a detailed study of the Quran and what it implies. One gets the impression that no human being could have possibly written such a book. 4) Believe that God will judge us after death based on our deeds and the choices we make in life. 5) Believe in doing good and avoiding evil to the best of your ability.These are the basic beliefs that you must have to be a Muslim. According to this, all prophets conveyed the same message (including Moses and Jesus, who the Quran says was human). There are many details to practicing Islam, like how to pray and how to fast, the implementation of those make you a better Muslim. Testimonies of Women and Men who have Embraced Islam http://www.thetruereligion.org/converts.htm An invitation to the truth http://www.hyahya.org/ MUSLIM SCIENTISTS, MATHEMATICIANS AND ASTRONOMERS Beore European Renaissance, 700 – 1500 C.E http://cyberistan.org/islamic/ Quran simple search http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html Quran by Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Pickthall http://www.al-quran.org.uk/ Let me suggest you some books on Islam. 1) Qu’ran commentary by Muhammad Asad 2) "The Life of Muhammad" by M. Haykal 3) "The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Islam.by Yahiya Emerick" 4)"Islam Between East and West" by Alija Ali Izetbegovic" 5) "Islam (2nd ed.)" by Fazlur Rahman Islimic message board below A Religion of Peace and Justice http://forums.delphiforums.com/islamispeace/start Islamic Discussions http://forums.delphiforums.com/Islamic1/start Islam http://forums.about.com/n/main.asp?webtag=ab-islam&nav=start&prettyur… The Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad May the Mercy and Peace of Almighty God be upon him This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of the month of Dhul-Hijjah in the Tenth Year of the Hijrah (i.e. the Prophet’s forced migration from Mecca to Medina) in the ‘Uranah Valley of Arafat, near Mecca. After praising and thanking Almighty God (Arabic: Allah), the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "O People lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.O People just as you regard this month, this day and this city as sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that he will indeed reckon your deeds. ALMIGHTY GOD has forbidden you to take interest (Arabic: riba), therefore all financial obligations involving interest shall henceforth be waived. Your capital is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Almighty God has judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib (the Prophet’s uncle) be waived. Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabiah ibn al- Harithibn. O men, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which God has made permissible. With Almighty God, the months are twelve in number.Four of them are holy, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Shaban. Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope of that he will be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things. O People it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women,but they also have right over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your rights, then to them belong the right to be fed and clothed in kindness.Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in ernest, worship ALMIGHTY GOD, say your five daily prayers fast during month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in charity (Arabic: Zakat) and perform Hajj if you can afford to. All of mankind comes from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor does a black have any superiority over a white — except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belogs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Almighty God and answer for your deeds. So beware and do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand the words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things: the QUR’AN and my SUNNAH,and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O GOD, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people." letter of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) to the monks of a St. Catherine monastery in Mt. Sinai. The letter is cited below *"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. *Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. *No compulsion is to be on them. *Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. *No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. *Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. *No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. *The Muslims are to fight for them. *If a female Christian is married to a muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.*Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. *No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)." Peace

Response:

If the watch, either by itself or in concert with other watches, could make new watches then I might lend some credence to the hypothesis that the generations of what are now watches did indeed "emerge from the sand."

Response:

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

Who made the watchmaker? Nobody you say? Who made the Universe, nobody. The Universe doesn’t make watches, but it makes watchmakers. — Cheerful Charlie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, no sane person would say the watch just happened to emerge from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop from the metals that lay buried in the earth. The watch must have a manufacturer. If a watch tells an accurate time, we expect the manufacturer must be intelligent. Blind chance cannot produce a working watch. But what else tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and the sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientistscan publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspaper, but who regulated the timings of sunrise and sunset? If a watch cannot work without an intelligent maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork regularity? Could this occur by itself? Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from the earth. A distances that averages 93 million miles. If it get much closer, the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away, the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible. Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance. Withuot the sun, plants would not grow. Then animals and humans wouls starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us? We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun energy and its light to see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a break for the heat, we need the cool of the night and we need the lights to go out so we may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide what we need? Moreover, if we had only the warmth of the sun and the protection of the atmosphere we would want something more-beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and protection, yet we design them also to look beautiful/knowing our need for beauty, the designer of the sunrise and the sunset also made the view of them to be simply breathtaking. The Creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that He does not exist. What would they think if they a watch in the desert? An accurate and working watch? A beautiful designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker. One who apperciates beauty. Such is God who made us.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peace be with you What is a muslim? Simple: To be a Muslim you must: 1) Believe in a One God that is all powerful, and the Creator of everything there is. 2) Believe that God has contacted us via messages by His messengers: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and finally Mohammed. In addition to many others. 3) Believe that the Quran is God’s literal word. Meaning each word comes from Him. That can be verified by a detailed study of the Quran and what it implies. One gets the impression that no human being could have possibly written such a book. 4) Believe that God will judge us after death based on our deeds and the choices we make in life. 5) Believe in doing good and avoiding evil to the best of your ability.These are the basic beliefs that you must have to be a Muslim. According to this, all prophets conveyed the same message (including Moses and Jesus, who the Quran says was human). There are many details to practicing Islam, like how to pray and how to fast, the implementation of those make you a better Muslim. Testimonies of Women and Men who have Embraced Islam http://www.thetruereligion.org/converts.htm An invitation to the truth http://www.hyahya.org/ MUSLIM SCIENTISTS, MATHEMATICIANS AND ASTRONOMERS Beore European Renaissance, 700 – 1500 C.E http://cyberistan.org/islamic/ Quran simple search http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html Quran by Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Pickthall http://www.al-quran.org.uk/ Let me suggest you some books on Islam. 1) Qu’ran commentary by Muhammad Asad 2) "The Life of Muhammad" by M. Haykal 3) "The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Islam.by Yahiya Emerick" 4)"Islam Between East and West" by Alija Ali Izetbegovic" 5) "Islam (2nd ed.)" by Fazlur Rahman Islimic message board below A Religion of Peace and Justice http://forums.delphiforums.com/islamispeace/start Islamic Discussions http://forums.delphiforums.com/Islamic1/start Islam

http://forums.about.com/n/main.asp?webtag=ab-islam&nav=start&prettyur… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad May the Mercy and Peace of Almighty God be upon him This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of the month of Dhul-Hijjah in the Tenth Year of the Hijrah (i.e. the Prophet’s forced migration from Mecca to Medina) in the ‘Uranah Valley of Arafat, near Mecca. After praising and thanking Almighty God (Arabic: Allah), the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "O People lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.O People just as you regard this month, this day and this city as sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that he will indeed reckon your deeds. ALMIGHTY GOD has forbidden you to take interest (Arabic: riba), therefore all financial obligations involving interest shall henceforth be waived. Your capital is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Almighty God has judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib (the Prophet’s uncle) be waived. Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabiah ibn al- Harithibn. O men, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which God has made permissible. With Almighty God, the months are twelve in number.Four of them are holy, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Shaban. Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope of that he will be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things. O People it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women,but they also have right over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your rights, then to them belong the right to be fed and clothed in kindness.Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in ernest, worship ALMIGHTY GOD, say your five daily prayers fast during month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in charity (Arabic: Zakat) and perform Hajj if you can afford to. All of mankind comes from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor does a black have any superiority over a white — except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belogs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Almighty God and answer for your deeds. So beware and do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand the words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things: the QUR’AN and my SUNNAH,and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O GOD, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people." letter of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) to the monks of a St. Catherine monastery in Mt. Sinai. The letter is cited below *"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. *Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. *No compulsion is to be on them. *Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. *No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. *Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. *No one is to

Response:

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

Suppose you tried finding out what real *scientists* think of this old chestnut before you post such drivel? You may find the idea compelling and reasonable, but it is useless and was shown to be useless long before you were born. Grow up and do sme reading of materal *other* than that lunacy you’ve been reading. — Nemo – EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations. Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!) BAAWA Knight! – One of those warm Southern Knights, y’all! Charter member, SMASH!! http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus Quotemeister since March 2002

Response:

So do you think watches make watches ? I dont !

Response:

| | Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it | remains at a safe distance from the earth. A distances that averages | 93 million miles. If it get much closer, the earth would burn up. And | if it got too far away, the earth would turn into an icy planet making | human life here impossible. Who decided in advance that this was the | right distance? Could it just happen by chance. You know.. there are EIGHT other planets in our solar system!! Our planet is the ONLY one that actually ended up in the right spot. Guess the "watchmaker" got it wrong eight times first, huh? Oh, and by the way, it’s not the Sun that could get closer or further away. It’s the EARTH!!! If you want to make an argument, get your facts straight first! Dawn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself? Of course, no sane person would say the watch just happened to emerge from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop from the metals that lay buried in the earth. The watch must have a manufacturer. If a watch tells an accurate time, we expect the manufacturer must be intelligent. Blind chance cannot produce a working watch. But what else tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and the sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientistscan publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspaper, but who regulated the timings of sunrise and sunset? If a watch cannot work without an intelligent maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork regularity? Could this occur by itself?

Jaw drop time. Thermos bottles keep cold things cold and hot things hot. How do they know which one to do???? Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from the earth. A distances that averages 93 million miles. If it get much closer, the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away, the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible. Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance.

Is this a blonde joke? <snip rest Jim07D3

Response:

Old, tired and lame bullshit story. What are you….14?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself? Of course, no sane person would say the watch just happened to emerge from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop from the metals that lay buried in the earth. The watch must have a manufacturer. If a watch tells an accurate time, we expect the manufacturer must be intelligent. Blind chance cannot produce a working watch. But what else tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and the sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientistscan publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspaper, but who regulated the timings of sunrise and sunset? If a watch cannot work without an intelligent maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork regularity? Could this occur by itself? Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from the earth. A distances that averages 93 million miles. If it get much closer, the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away, the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible. Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance. Withuot the sun, plants would not grow. Then animals and humans wouls starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us? We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun energy and its light to see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a break for the heat, we need the cool of the night and we need the lights to go out so we may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide what we need? Moreover, if we had only the warmth of the sun and the protection of the atmosphere we would want something more-beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and protection, yet we design them also to look beautiful/knowing our need for beauty, the designer of the sunrise and the sunset also made the view of them to be simply breathtaking. The Creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that He does not exist. What would they think if they a watch in the desert? An accurate and working watch? A beautiful designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker. One who apperciates beauty. Such is God who made us.

= – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peace be with you What is a muslim? Simple: To be a Muslim you must: 1) Believe in a One God that is all powerful, and the Creator of everything there is. 2) Believe that God has contacted us via messages by His messengers: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and finally Mohammed. In addition to many others. 3) Believe that the Quran is God’s literal word. Meaning each word comes from Him. That can be verified by a detailed study of the Quran and what it implies. One gets the impression that no human being could have possibly written such a book. 4) Believe that God will judge us after death based on our deeds and the choices we make in life. 5) Believe in doing good and avoiding evil to the best of your ability.These are the basic beliefs that you must have to be a Muslim. According to this, all prophets conveyed the same message (including Moses and Jesus, who the Quran says was human). There are many details to practicing Islam, like how to pray and how to fast, the implementation of those make you a better Muslim. Testimonies of Women and Men who have Embraced Islam http://www.thetruereligion.org/converts.htm An invitation to the truth http://www.hyahya.org/ MUSLIM SCIENTISTS, MATHEMATICIANS AND ASTRONOMERS Beore European Renaissance, 700 – 1500 C.E http://cyberistan.org/islamic/ Quran simple search http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html Quran by Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Pickthall http://www.al-quran.org.uk/ Let me suggest you some books on Islam. 1) Qu’ran commentary by Muhammad Asad 2) "The Life of Muhammad" by M. Haykal 3) "The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Islam.by Yahiya Emerick" 4)"Islam Between East and West" by Alija Ali Izetbegovic" 5) "Islam (2nd ed.)" by Fazlur Rahman Islimic message board below A Religion of Peace and Justice http://forums.delphiforums.com/islamispeace/start Islamic Discussions http://forums.delphiforums.com/Islamic1/start Islam

http://forums.about.com/n/main.asp?webtag=ab-islam&nav=start&prettyur… %2Dislam%2Fstart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad May the Mercy and Peace of Almighty God be upon him This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of the month of Dhul-Hijjah in the Tenth Year of the Hijrah (i.e. the Prophet’s forced migration from Mecca to Medina) in the ‘Uranah Valley of Arafat, near Mecca. After praising and thanking Almighty God (Arabic: Allah), the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "O People lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.O People just as you regard this month, this day and this city as sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that he will indeed reckon your deeds. ALMIGHTY GOD has forbidden you to take interest (Arabic: riba), therefore all financial obligations involving interest shall henceforth be waived. Your capital is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Almighty God has judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib (the Prophet’s uncle) be waived. Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabiah ibn al- Harithibn. O men, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which God has made permissible. With Almighty God, the months are twelve in number.Four of them are holy, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Shaban. Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope of that he will be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things. O People it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women,but they also have right over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your rights, then to them belong the right to be fed and clothed in kindness.Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in ernest, worship ALMIGHTY GOD, say your five daily prayers fast during month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in charity (Arabic: Zakat) and perform Hajj if you can afford to. All of mankind comes from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor does a black have any superiority over a white — except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belogs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Almighty God and answer for your deeds. So beware and do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand the words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things: the QUR’AN and my SUNNAH,and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O GOD, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people." letter of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) to the monks of a St. Catherine monastery in Mt. Sinai. The letter is cited below *"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. *Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. *No compulsion is to be on them. *Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. *No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. *Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. *No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. *The

Response:

But what else tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and the sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientistscan publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspaper, but who regulated the timings of sunrise and sunset?

The sun neither rises nor sets. The earth spins creating the illusion of a setting or rising sun. If Islam was as concerned with science and understanding and less about political thought control and subjugation of a people you might have picked up on this widely reported and easily found fact and not bothered posting this sophomoric drivel.

Response:

What if you found a turd in the sand?

Response:

I’ll have a new watch. — Dr. Smartass Jello is a Dish Best Served Cold. The Priesthood has gone from "Father Flanigan" to "Who’s your daddy?!"

Response:

Divine Litterbox? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What if you found a turd in the sand?

Response:

Divine Litterbox?

Nah … I would just conclude that shit happens. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What if you found a turd in the sand?

Response:

Good, then we’re agreed: watches are made by human beings. — a.a. #2001 "We have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." –Tombstone epitaph of two amateur astronomers, quoted in Carl Sagan’s _Cosmos_ http://www.ebonmusings.org ICQ: 8777843 PGP Key ID: 0×5C66F737

Response:

Divine Litterbox? Nah … I would just conclude that shit happens.

And, of course, our universe is no exception. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What if you found a turd in the sand?

Response:

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you

OK. I’m convinced. I have a tea-towel. Where do I get flying lessons?

Response:

The Creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that He does not exist. What would they think if they a watch in the desert? An accurate and working watch? A beautiful designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker. One who apperciates beauty. Such is God who made us.

Thanks to ALlah, The most Beneficient, The Most Merciful. El-hamdulillahi Rabbi’l 3′Alaminn Adhabuhu

Response:

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

LOL! You’re actually rehashing Paley’s "Watchmaker" argument and expecting it to be taken seriously? What’s next, Pascal’s Wager? <plonk

Response:

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

Why no, I would naturally assume that the watch was a product of intelligence. But how would I distinguish the watch from the desert background? By the fact that the desert IS NOT the product of intelligence. Thank you for agreeing with me that the desert has no creator. — Denis Loubet http://www.io.com/~dloubet

Response:

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone dad dropped the watch? Or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

I’d rub it and hope a genie came out and buffed me off. — Jeremy Martin "MENTAL GIANT kollegge graduate with a PHD in STUPID!" "When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." – Jonathan Swift

Response:

The examples you use are flawed. The fact that scientists can predict the time of sunrise and sunset does not mean a god created them; it does mean that the earth’s rotation follows some kind of predictable pattern and that scientists have developed tools accurate enough to predict the pattern. The fact that the rotation of the earth follows a pattern does not mean that god exists, because 1) out of random set of noises probability says some patterns will arise, and 2) everything in the universe follows certain "patterns," such as gravity, inertia, law of conversation of mass and energy, etc. The existence of these laws does not show a god exists. Actually, I hold that the existence of these "patterns" supports athiesm, since everything known to exist follows a certain set of patterns; in order for god to exist, he would have to defy some of those patterns. Your second example (of the fact that the earth happens to be a certain distance from the sun that allows life) is even more flawed. While the chance that any individual planet has the right set of circumstances to support life is quite low, in such a large universe the chance that there would be at least one planet whose specific circumstances allow life is very high. To an objective, outside observer, in a huge universe the fact that such a planet exists means nothing.

Response:

Of course. It tells us nothing of God of course. But what else tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and the sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientistscan publish in advance the sunrise and sunset times in your daily newspaper, but who regulated the timings of sunrise and sunset?

Wrong question. Things move in regular ways unless something changes their regular movement. What we do is observe the orbit of the moon or the rotation of the earth and look for anything that might disturb that regularity. In this way we find that the earth and the moon do not behave like perfect solid spheres of negligable radius – but rather that they flex and distort that the oceans and atmosphere of the earth bulges out – and so does the solid rock. It was Newton who overturned the idea that things require a force to move – he instead realised that things require a force to *change* their motion. You are thinking as if Newton never existed. If a watch cannot work without an intelligent maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockwork regularity?

It is folowing its nature. Could this occur by itself? Yes. Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from the earth. A distances that averages 93 million miles. If it get much closer, the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away, the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible. Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance.

Yes. Withuot the sun, plants would not grow. Then animals and humans wouls starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us?

No. We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun energy and its light to see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a break for the heat, we need the cool of the night and we need the lights to go out so we may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide what we need?

No one. Moreover, if we had only the warmth of the sun and the protection of the atmosphere we would want something more-beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and protection, yet we design them also to look beautiful/knowing our need for beauty, the designer of the sunrise and the sunset also made the view of them to be simply breathtaking. The Creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that He does not exist. What would they think if they a watch in the desert?

Exactly the same thing as you. An accurate and working watch? A beautiful designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker.

Of course they would. One who apperciates beauty. Such is God who made us.

It is your God , so God can be whatever you imagine him to be. It is no concern of mine. Peace be with you What is a muslim? Simple: To be a Muslim you must: 1) Believe in a One God that is all powerful, and the Creator of everything there is.

That rules me out! Mark. — Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau Member of S.M.A.S.H. (Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)

Response:

Peace be with you What is a muslim? Simple: To be a Muslim you must: 1) Believe in a One God that is all powerful, and the Creator of everything there is.

I agree! 2) Believe that God has contacted us via messages by His messengers: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and finally Mohammed. In addition to many others.

Mmmmh! Finally Mohammed? Padre Pio and all the Saints are not good enough. Mah! I didn’t know God could give the monopoly of prophecies to one guy only. What about the prophecy of Isaiah? There is basically no match between Isaiah and Mohammed. I rather stick to Isaiah. 3) Believe that the Quran is God’s literal word. Meaning each word comes from Him. That can be verified by a detailed study of the Quran and what it implies. One gets the impression that no human being could have possibly written such a book.

Ooooh, yes! I agree with this one *compleately*: no human being could have possibly written such a book. Right on target my friend! (-; 4) Believe that God will judge us after death based on our deeds and the choices we make in life.

I get this from the Bible already. Nothing new. O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand the words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things: the QUR’AN and my SUNNAH,and if you follow these you will never go astray.

Quite boring this religion. Nothing after him. Uh? Who want to go that way? All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O GOD, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people."

looks like the "Amway". You know…the great multi-marketing thing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – letter of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) to the monks of a St. Catherine monastery in Mt. Sinai. The letter is cited below *"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. *Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. *No compulsion is to be on them. *Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. *No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. *Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. *No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. *The Muslims are to fight for them. *If a female Christian is married to a muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.*Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. *No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)." Peace

That’s kind. Quite an improvement! Thanks. See, we don’t agree about a few things but..eventually the Holy Spirit will put everthing on the gold table for us to see which one is the way.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Creator who gave us light, energy, protection and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that He does not exist. What would they think if they a watch in the desert? An accurate and working watch? A beautiful designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker. One who apperciates beauty. Such is God who made us. Thanks to ALlah, The most Beneficient, The Most Merciful. El-hamdulillahi Rabbi’l 3′Alaminn Adhabuhu

Ikhlassy akhrasi ya sharmoot wa iftahy khashmik. (which means…) Shut up man-bitch and open your mouth. Warlord Steve BAAWA www.sonic.net/~wooly

Response:

that: Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert.

Suppose you realize that Paley’s Watchmaker argument has been refuted to death. Don — aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"

Response:

Address: http://christianityqa.com/islam-christianity/what-if-you-find-a-watch-in-the-sand-1195874.html

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