Christianity QA

Question:

Is there a point here? — Discuss Politics, reality shows, Race Relations, Gay Rights and Marvel or DC characters. http://www.comicboards.org/race http://www.comicboards.org/gays http://www.comicboards.org/thor http://www.comicboards.org/surfer http://www.comicboards.org/strange

Response:

We at least know that the Kaaba is from Uranus..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amazing Qur’an  by Gary Miller Calling the Qur’an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing. One thing which surprises non_muslims who are examining the book very closely is that the Qur’an does not appear to them to be what they expected. What they assume is that they have an old book which came fourteen centuries ago from the Arabian desert; and they expect that the book should look something like that – an old book from the desert. And then they find out that it does not resemble what they expected at all. Additionally, one of the first things that some people assume is that because it is an old book which comes from the desert, it should talk about the desert. Well the Qur’an does talk about the desert – some of its imagery describes the desert; but it also talks about the sea – what it’s like to be in a storm on the sea. Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his  living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing  about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately theQur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’an’sdescription because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written thatdescription had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds"was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. More http://www.beconvinced.com/AMAZINGQURAN_htm’.htm

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an

Thirteen reasons why Islam is a disgusting religion. Many of you are probably wondering why Muslims behave as they do.  You probably think that the kind of people that blew up the trade center are extremists that are carrying their religion much further than was ever intended.  But this is not the case.  Terrorists don’t create themselves in a vacuum.  The terrorists stand on the shoulders of the militants; the militants stand on the shoulders of the ordinary Muslims and they all stand on their religious texts. The answer to why Muslims behave as they do can be found in the Quran and well as in the texts that describe the life and sayings of their prophet Mohammed – the Hadith.  And while I have limited myself to examples from Islam’s own texts, it should also be understood that the violence that has been done by Muslims to the US on this day is the kind of violence that has been endured by much of the rest of the world every day.  Note, this is a long piece, so for those of you who are impatient, reasons 2,3 and 4 are the most relevant to today’s events. ***** 1. Islam is disgusting because it is divisive. The central function of the Quran is to split mankind into two distinct catagories – the believers and the unbelievers. Then playing upon this distinction it uses the psychological ploy of constantly threatening the unbeliever with hell and offering to reward the obedient believer with heaven. This same theme, with very little variation is repeated several hundred times within the Quran. In addition to this, the constantly destructive and hateful language that is directed at the unbeliever can only serve to ever increase the hatred of the Muslim for the unbeliever. From the constant process of brain washing that we see in the Quran, it is easy to see why Muslims have always treated non Muslims as sub human and why Islam has always had bloody borders. Here is a tiny fraction of the examples: Quran: [4.56] (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. [4.57] And (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, We will make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them for ever; they shall have therein virgins, and We shall make them enter a dense shade. [57.19] And (as for) those who believe in Allah and His apostles, these it is that are the truthful and the faithful ones in the sight of their Lord: they shall have their reward and their light, and (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the inmates of the hell. [48.6] And (that) He may punish the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women, and the polytheistic men and the polytheistic women, the entertainers of evil thoughts about Allah. On them is the evil turn, and Allah is wroth with them and has cursed them and prepared hell for them, and evil is the resort. [7.179] And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones. [8.37] That Allah might separate the impure from the good, and put the impure, some of it upon the other, and pile it up together, then cast it into hell; these it is that are the losers. [9.73] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. [98.6] Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men. [3.12] Say to those who disbelieve: You shall be vanquished, and driven together to hell; and evil is the resting-place. [35.34] And (as for) those who disbelieve, for them is the fire of hell; it shall not be finished with them entirely so that they should die, nor shall the chastisement thereof be lightened to them: even thus do We retribute every ungrateful one. Mohammed’s purpose in inventing Islam was to constantly increase his power. All of his actions were designed to grow Islam. And of course, anyone who became a Muslim fell under his control. The imperialistic objectives of Islam to conquer and control the entire world are clearly spelled out in these examples. Quran: [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and *** religion should be only for Allah;*** but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do. Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4366: It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim. Sahih Muslim The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman) Book 001, Number 0033: It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. ‘Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah. Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 392: Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle." Here is evidence that Mohammed wanted his men to use their women as baby machines so that his power would increase. Abu Dawud Book 11, Number 2045: Narrated Ma’qil ibn Yasar: A man came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: I have found a woman of rank and beauty, but she does not give birth to children. Should I marry her? He said: No. He came again to him, but he prohibited him. He came to him third time, and he (the Prophet) said: Marry women who are loving and very prolific, for I shall outnumber the peoples by you. ******* 3. Islam is disgusting because it is bigoted. Religious bigotry has always been a curse to mankind, and Islam’s bigotry against other religions is clear from these verses. Quran: [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. [5.82] Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly. [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! [4.160] Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah’s way. [5.18] And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your faults? ******* 4. Islam is disgusting because it is bloodthirsty and genocidal. Mohammed himself led at least 19 military expeditions. The majority of these were offensive in nature. Often they served little purpose but to bring Mohammed and his followers slaves and booty. At one time Arabia was almost 40% Jewish. Mohammed annihilated the majority of them and subjected the rest to a humilitating second class citizen status. His followers murders tens of millions of Persians, Hindus, Turks, Armenian, Kurds, Europeans, etc. etc. etc. The following examples from the Islamic religious texts give the source of the Muslim attitudes. Quran: [9:5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. [9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world’s life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4:95] Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath God promised … read more »

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an  by Gary Miller Calling the Qur’an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing. One thing which surprises non_muslims who are examining the book very closely is that the Qur’an does not appear to them to be what they expected. What they assume is that they have an old book which came fourteen centuries ago from the Arabian desert; and they expect that the book should look something like that – an old book from the desert. And then they find out that it does not resemble what they expected at all. Additionally, one of the first things that some people assume is that because it is an old book which comes from the desert, it should talk about the desert. Well the Qur’an does talk about the desert – some of its imagery describes the desert; but it also talks about the sea – what it’s like to be in a storm on the sea. Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his  living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing  about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately theQur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’an’sdescription because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written thatdescription had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds"was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. More http://www.beconvinced.com/AMAZINGQURAN_htm’.htm

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. Continued http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

Response:

amazing that people still believe your crappy pseudo religion.The single greatest threat to freedom,democracy and civilisation today.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. Continued http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

Response:

islam is not even a religion – it’s a poison of some kind.

Response:

Allah was the pet pig of profit Mohammed. Mohammed sodomized (anal sex) Allah everyday till it oinked oinked a sura of Quran. Amazaing, isn’t it!!! Oink, Oink, Oink – Al Quran 1.1 Abu, The camel rider

Thanks for the laugh Abu. Dave — Islam is a gutter religion based on dumbass arab culture. Its founder Mohammed was a low life son of a bitch and a mad lunatic. I piss on Mohammed (pig shit be upon him), Allah (pig shit be upon him) and Quran (dumbass arabic crap) everyday. ISLAM stands for the following: [I] = Incest [S] = Sodomy [L] = Looting [A] = Asslifting [M] = Murder

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Calling the Qur’an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing.

Yep, you got that right  "Amazing" work of fiction

Response:

In the Name of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller

A loose response to this article that was written more than two years ago can be read here: http://freethoughtmecca.org/garymiller.html

Response:

In the Name of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Calling the Qur’an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing. One thing which surprises non-muslims who are examining the book very closely is that the Qur’an does not appear to them to be what they expected. What they assume is that they have an old book which came fourteen centuries ago from the Arabian desert; and they expect that the book should look something like that – an old book from the desert. And then they find out that it does not resemble what they expected at all. Additionally, one of the first things that some people assume is that because it is an old book which comes from the desert, it should talk about the desert. Well the Qur’an does talk about the desert – some of its imagery describes the desert; but it also talks about the sea – what it’s like to be in a storm on the sea. Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’an’s description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. Many centuries before the onset of Muhammed’s Prophethood, there was a well-known theory of atomism advanced by the Greek philosopher, Democritus. He and the people who came after him assumed that matter consists of tiny, indestructible, indivisible particles called atoms. The Arabs too, used to deal in the same concept; in fact, the Arabic word dharrah commonly referred to the smallest particle known to man. Now, modern science has discovered that this smallest unit of matter (i.e., the atom, which has all of the same properties as its element) can be split into its component parts. This is a new idea, a development of the last century; yet, interestingly enough, this information had already been documented in the Qur’an which states: " He [i.e., Allah] is aware of an atom’s weight in the heavens and on the earth and even anything smaller than that…" Undoubtedly, fourteen centuries ago that statement would have looked unusual, even to an Arab. For him, the dharrah was the smallest thing there was. Indeed, this is proof, that the Qur’an is not outdated. Another example of what one might expect to find in an"old book" that touches upon the subject of health or medicine is outdated remedies or cures. Various historical sources state that the Prophet gave some advice about health and hygiene, yet most of these pieces of advice are not contained in the Qur’an. At first glance, to the non-Muslims this appears to be a negligent omission. They cannot understand why Allah would not "include" such helpful information in the Qur’an. Some Muslims attempt to explain this absence with the following argument: "Although the Prophet’s advice was sound and applicable to the time in which he lived, Allah, in His infinite wisdom, knew that there would come later medical and scientific advances which would make the Prophet’s advice appear outdated. When later discoveries occurred, people might say that such information contradicted that which the Prophet had given. Thus, since Allah would never allow any opportunity for the non-Muslims to claim that the Qur’an contradicts itself or the teachings of the Prophet, He only included in the Qur’an information and examples which could stand the test of time." However, when one examines the true realities of the Qur’an in terms of its existence as a divine revelation, the entire matter is quickly brought into its proper perspective, and the error in such argumentation becomes clear and understandable. It must be understood that the Qur’an is a divine revelation, and as such, all information in it is of divine origin. Allah revealed the Qur’an from Himself. It is the words of Allah, which existed before creation, and thus nothing can be added, subtracted or altered. In essence, the Qur’an existed and was complete before the creation of Prophet Muhammed, so it could not possibly contain any of the Prophet’s own words or advice. An inclusion of such information would clearly contradict the purpose for which the Qur’an exists, compromise its authority and render it inauthentic as a divine revelation. Consequently, there was no "home remedies" in the Qur’an which one could claim to be outdated; nor does it contain any man’s view about what is beneficial to health, what food is best to eat, or what will cure this or that disease. In fact, the Qur’an only mentions one item dealing with medical treatment, and it is not in dispute by anyone. It states that in honey there is healing. And certainly, I do not think that there is anyone who will argue with that! If one assumes that the Qur’an is the product of a man’s mind, then one would expect it to reflect some of what was going on in the mind of the man who "composed" it. In fact, certain encyclopedias and various books clam that the Qur’an was the product of hallucinations that Muhammed underwent. If these claims are true – if it indeed originated from some psychological problems in Muhammed’s mind – then evidence of this would be apparent in the Qur’an. Is there such evidence? In order to determine whether or not there is, one must first identify what things would have been going on in his mind at that time and then search for these thoughts and reflections in the Qur’an. It is common knowledge that Muhammad had a very difficult life. All of his daughters died before him except one, and he had a wife of several years who was dear and important to him, who not only proceeded him in death at a very critical period of his life. As a matter of fact, she must have been quite a woman because when the first revelation came to him, he ran home to her afraid. Certainly, even today one would have a hard time trying to find an Arab who would tell you, "I was so afraid that I ran home to my wife." They just aren’t that way. Yet Muhammed felt comfortable enough with his wife to be able to do that. That’s how influential and strong woman she was. Although these examples are only a few of the subjects that would have been on Muhammed’s mind, they are sufficient in intensity to prove my point. The Qur’an does not mention any of these things – not the death of his children, not the death of his beloved companion and wife, not his fear of the initial revelations, which he so beautifully shared with his wife – nothing; yet, these topics must have hurt him, bothered him, and caused him pain and grief during periods of his psychological reflections, then these subjects, as well as others, would be prevalent or at least mentioned throughout. A truly scientific approach to the Qur’an is possible because the Qur’an offers something that is not offered by other religious scriptures, in particular, and other religions, in general. It is what scientists demand. Today there are many people who have ideas and theories about how the universe works. These people are all over the place, but the scientific community does not even bother to listen to them. This is because within the last century the scientific community has demanded a test of falsification. They say, "If you have theory, do not bother us with it unless you bring with that theory a way for us to prove whether you are wrong or not." Such a test was exactly why the scientific community listened to Einstein towards the beginning of the century. He came with a new theory and said, "I believe the universe works like this; and here are three ways to prove whether I am wrong!". So the scientific community subjected his theory to the tests, and within six years it passed all three. Of course, this does not prove that he was great, but it proves that he deserved to be listened to because he said, "This is my idea; and if you want to try to prove me wrong, do this or try that." This is exactly what the Qur’an has – falsification tests. Some are old (in that they have already been proven true), and some still exist today. Basically it states, "If this book is not what it claims to be, then all you have to do is this or this or this to prove that it is false." Of course, in 1400 years no one has been able to do "This or this or this, " and thus it is still considered true and authentic. I suggest to you that the next time you get into dispute with someone about Islam and he claims that he has the truth and that you are in darkness, you leave all other arguments at first and make this suggestion. Ask him, "Is there any falsification test in your religion? Is there anything in your religion that would prove you are wrong if I could prove to you that it exists – anything?" Well, I can promise right now that people will not have anything – no test, no proof, nothing! This is because they do not carry around the idea that they should not only present what they … read more »

Response:

And pedophile Muhammed was chosen by God to spread such marvelous collection of non-sense to the illiterate bedouins. One single line explain it all. William of Occam or Ockham, c. 1285  c. 1349 English scholastic philosopher. A Franciscan, Occam studied and taught at Oxford from c. 1310 until 1324, when he was summoned to the papal court at Avignon to answer charges of heresy in his writings. He waited there until 1328 for a judgment. When it appeared that Pope John XXII was about to condemn his position Occam fled to the protection of Holy Roman Emperor Louis IV, whom he supported in his struggle with Pope John. He is thought to have died in the black plague that swept Europe in the middle of the 14th cent. Occam’s teachings mark an important break with previous medieval philosophy, especially with the Aristotelian realism of St. Thomas Aquinas. Like Marsilius of Padua, Occam strongly opposed the temporal power of the pope and wrote numerous works on the subject. His Dialogus is a thorough discussion of political theories. A nominalist, he denied that the forms of knowledge corresponded to those of being. He saw our concepts to be naturally occasioned by the world, but thought could not be taken as a measure of being. Specifically, Occam denied the existence of universals except in our minds and in language. An empiricist, Occam disputed the self-evidence of principles of Aristotelian logic (like the final cause) and of Christian theology (like the existence of God). For this reason Occam severely restricted the province of philosophy in order to safeguard theology, denying the competence of reason in matters of faith. Just as he had maintained a distinction between our concepts and being, he saw creation not as a necessary consequence of the divine intellect, as Aquinas had, but as an expression of God’s limitless will. In the area of logic, where he had great influence, he is remembered for his use of the principle of parsimony, formulated as "Occam’s Razor", which enjoined economy in explanation with the axiom,  What can be done with fewer [assumptions] is done in vain with more. Occam’s Razor: About Explanations: If one is confronted with a series of phenomena (objects, entities) for which there exists more than one viable explanation, one should choose the simplest explanation which fits all the observed facts. About Actions: What can be done with less is done in vain AND inefficiently with more. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - See his philosophical writings (tr. and ed. by P. Boehner, 1957); biography by M. M. Adams (2 vol., 1986); see also E. A. Moody, The Logic of William of Ockham (1935, repr. 1965); A. S. McCrade, The Political Thought of William of Ockham (1974). < < <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. From The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Click here to read full article at: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

Response:

It is really amazing. [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. [4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority. [5-51] O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. [3-151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust. [8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. [Qu'ran 9.29] Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [Quran: 9:29-32]: Fight against those among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) who do not believe in God and the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His messenger have forbidden, until they are subdued and pay jizyah (tax on non-Muslims) … A typical invitation to the people of the book (Christians and Jews) was: "Embrace Islam, or pay the poll-tax (Ziziya), or fight to death." [Surah 8:39; 9:5, 29: 47:4] " It is a ‘divine’ commandment to persecute Jews and Christians, to defeat them in battle and then to consign them either to slavery or to death." [9:73] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. [8:12] I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them [9:14] Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers, [8:17] It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself [52.45] Leave them then till they meet that day of theirs wherein they shall be made to swoon (with terror): There is no compulsion in Islam as long as one is a Muslim. [2-256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing. Islam clearly cannot allow for any other faith.  From the hadith: Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4366: It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim. Sahih Muslim The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman) Book 001, Number 0033: It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. ‘Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah. Well, if you liked the above, you will love the following: Wife beating is GOOD for her. Muhammed said so, 3)THE TRADITIONS (HADITH) ON ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING The Hadith contain more information relative to how wife beating existed in the early Islamic culture.  There are a variety of writings, all illustrating various facets of the husband wife relationship and physical violence against the wife.  I will mention several of them to bring out the wife’s lower position in the marriage, and the exact type of wife beating that occurred in Muhammad’s time, with his approval.  In some cases due to the length I will only quote relevant portions of a Hadith. HISTORICAL CONTEXUAL BACKGROUND ON 4:34 Here is the reference for the background of 4:34. "A women complained to Muhammad that her husband slapped her on the face, (which was still marked by the slap).  At first the prophet said to her:  "Get even with him", but then added: "Wait until I think about it".  Later on, Allah supposedly revealed 4:34 to Muhammad, after which the prophet said:  "We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best".   [To beat your wife is best.] The above quote comes from Razi’s "At-Tafsir al-Kabir" on 4:34 (Quoted in Beyond the Veil [7].  Razi is one of the greatest Muslim scholars. Here is a Hadith from Bukhari [8], vol. 7, # 715, that supports the case: "Narrated Ikrima:  ’Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her.  Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating.  It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s messenger came, Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women.  Look!  Her skin is greener than her clothes!  When Abdur-Rahman heard that his wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife.  She said, "By Allah!  I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment. Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah’s messenger!  She has told a lie.  I am very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa."  Allah’s messenger said to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you."  The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?"  On that Abdur-Rahman said, "Yes."  The prophet said, "You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)?  But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow."" Let’s note several items from this Hadith. 1)   A woman was beaten by her husband because of marriage discord. The women did not commit any illegal sexual act.  She was beaten and bruised because her husband said she was "disobedient" and he thought she wanted to go back to her former husband. 2)   The Muslim women were suffering more than the non-Muslim women (via Aisha’s comment), note it is said in the plural.  This tells you just how good Muslim women back then really had it.  Things were so bad for them, that they had to "support" each other. 3)   The woman was badly bruised. 4)   Muhammad did not re-prove the man for beating his wife.  In fact, he reproached the women for saying Rahman was impotent.  Even though she was bruised, Muhammad accepted it. OTHER HADITH AND TRADITIONS ON WIFE BEATING Following are a number of various Hadith that relate instances or comments on wife beating. Again, I have edited several of these because of length. ABU  JAHM, A WELL KNOW WIFE BEATER SAHIH MUSLIM [9]. Book 009, Number 3512: When my period of ‘Idda was over, I mentioned to him [Muhammad] that Mu’awiya b. Abu Sufyan and Jahm had sent proposal of marriage to me, whereupon Allah’s said: As for Abu Jahm, he does not put down his staff from his shoulder, and as for Mu’awiya, he is a poor man having no property; marry Usama b. Zaid. I objected to him, but he again said: Marry Usama; so I married him. Allah blessed there in and I was envied (by others). SAHIH MUSLIM Book 009, Number 3526: So I informed him [Muhammad]. (By that time) Mu’awiya, Abu Jahm and Usama b. Zaid had given her the proposal of marriage. Allah’s Messenger said: So far as Mu’awiya is concerned, he is a poor man without any property. So far as Abu Jahm is concerned, he is a great beater of women, but Usama b. Zaid… She pointed with her hand (that she did not approve of the idea of marrying) Usama. But Allah’s Messenger said: Obedience to Allah and obedience to His Messenger is better for thee. She said: So I married him, and I became an object of envy. SAHIH MUSLIM Book 009, Number 3527: She said: Mu’awiya and Abu’l-Jahm were among those who had given me the proposal of marriage. Thereupon Allah’s Apostle said: Mu’awiya is destitute and in poor condition and Abu’l-Jahm is very harsh with women (or he beats women, or like that), you should take Usama b. Zaid (as your husband). COMMENT These three Hadith illustrate that some Muslim husbands could legally beat their wives without any retaliatory consequences.  Abu Jahm was known to beat his wives and although Muhammad may not have cared for it, it certainly was allowed within the Islamic community. HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD [10] Because the prescribed treatment of the wife, including wife beating is important in an Islamic marriage, this … read more »

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http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. From The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Click here to read full article at: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

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The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. From The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Click here to read full article at: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. From The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Click here to read full article at: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Calling the Qur’an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing. One thing which surprises non-muslims who are examining the book very closely is that the Qur’an does not appear to them to be what they expected. What they assume is that they have an old book which came fourteen centuries ago from the Arabian desert; and they expect that the book should look something like that – an old book from the desert. And then they find out that it does not resemble what they expected at all. Additionally, one of the first things that some people assume is that because it is an old book which comes from the desert, it should talk about the desert. Well the Qur’an does talk about the desert – some of its imagery describes the desert; but it also talks about the sea – what it’s like to be in a storm on the sea. Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’an’s description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. Many centuries before the onset of Muhammed’s Prophethood, there was a well-known theory of atomism advanced by the Greek philosopher, Democritus. He and the people who came after him assumed that matter consists of tiny, indestructible, indivisible particles called atoms. The Arabs too, used to deal in the same concept; in fact, the Arabic word dharrah commonly referred to the smallest particle known to man. Now, modern science has discovered that this smallest unit of matter (i.e., the atom, which has all of the same properties as its element) can be split into its component parts. This is a new idea, a development of the last century; yet, interestingly enough, this information had already been documented in the Qur’an which states: " He [i.e., Allah] is aware of an atom’s weight in the heavens and on the earth and even anything smaller than that…" Undoubtedly, fourteen centuries ago that statement would have looked unusual, even to an Arab. For him, the dharrah was the smallest thing there was. Indeed, this is proof, that the Qur’an is not outdated. Another example of what one might expect to find in an"old book" that touches upon the subject of health or medicine is outdated remedies or cures. Various historical sources state that the Prophet gave some advice about health and hygiene, yet most of these pieces of advice are not contained in the Qur’an. At first glance, to the non-Muslims this appears to be a negligent omission. They cannot understand why Allah would not "include" such helpful information in the Qur’an. Some Muslims attempt to explain this absence with the following argument: "Although the Prophet’s advice was sound and applicable to the time in which he lived, Allah, in His infinite wisdom, knew that there would come later medical and scientific advances which would make the Prophet’s advice appear outdated. When later discoveries occurred, people might say that such information contradicted that which the Prophet had given. Thus, since Allah would never allow any opportunity for the non-Muslims to claim that the Qur’an contradicts itself or the teachings of the Prophet, He only included in the Qur’an information and examples which could stand the test of time." However, when one examines the true realities of the Qur’an in terms of its existence as a divine revelation, the entire matter is quickly brought into its proper perspective, and the error in such argumentation becomes clear and understandable. It must be understood that the Qur’an is a divine revelation, and as such, all information in it is of divine origin. Allah revealed the Qur’an from Himself. It is the words of Allah, which existed before creation, and thus nothing can be added, subtracted or altered. In essence, the Qur’an existed and was complete before the creation of Prophet Muhammed, so it could not possibly contain any of the Prophet’s own words or advice. An inclusion of such information would clearly contradict the purpose for which the Qur’an exists, compromise its authority and render it inauthentic as a divine revelation. Consequently, there was no "home remedies" in the Qur’an which one could claim to be outdated; nor does it contain any man’s view about what is beneficial to health, what food is best to eat, or what will cure this or that disease. In fact, the Qur’an only mentions one item dealing with medical treatment, and it is not in dispute by anyone. It states that in honey there is healing. And certainly, I do not think that there is anyone who will argue with that! If one assumes that the Qur’an is the product of a man’s mind, then one would expect it to reflect some of what was going on in the mind of the man who "composed" it. In fact, certain encyclopedias and various books clam that the Qur’an was the product of hallucinations that Muhammed underwent. If these claims are true – if it indeed originated from some psychological problems in Muhammed’s mind – then evidence of this would be apparent in the Qur’an. Is there such evidence? In order to determine whether or not there is, one must first identify what things would have been going on in his mind at that time and then search for these thoughts and reflections in the Qur’an. It is common knowledge that Muhammad had a very difficult life. All of his daughters died before him except one, and he had a wife of several years who was dear and important to him, who not only proceeded him in death at a very critical period of his life. As a matter of fact, she must have been quite a woman because when the first revelation came to him, he ran home to her afraid. Certainly, even today one would have a hard time trying to find an Arab who would tell you, "I was so afraid that I ran home to my wife." They just aren’t that way. Yet Muhammed felt comfortable enough with his wife to be able to do that. That’s how influential and strong woman she was. Although these examples are only a few of the subjects that would have been on Muhammed’s mind, they are sufficient in intensity to prove my point. The Qur’an does not mention any of these things – not the death of his children, not the death of his beloved companion and wife, not his fear of the initial revelations, which he so beautifully shared with his wife – nothing; yet, these topics must have hurt him, bothered him, and caused him pain and grief during periods of his psychological reflections, then these subjects, as well as others, would be prevalent or at least mentioned throughout. A truly scientific approach to the Qur’an is possible because the Qur’an offers something that is not offered by other religious scriptures, in particular, and other religions, in general. It is what scientists demand. Today there are many people who have ideas and theories about how the universe works. These people are all over the place, but the scientific community does not even bother to listen to them. This is because within the last century the scientific community has demanded a test of falsification. They say, "If you have theory, do not bother us with it unless you bring with that theory a way for us to prove whether you are wrong or not." Such a test was exactly why the scientific community listened to Einstein towards the beginning of the century. He came with a new theory and said, "I believe the universe works like this; and here are three ways to prove whether I am wrong!". So the scientific community subjected his theory to the tests, and within six years it passed all three. Of course, this does not prove that he was great, but it proves that he deserved to be listened to because he said, "This is my idea; and if you want to try to prove me wrong, do this or try that." This is exactly what the Qur’an has – falsification tests. Some are old (in that they have already been proven true), and some still exist today. Basically it states, "If this book is not what it claims to be, then all you have to do is this or this or this to prove that it is false." Of course, in 1400 years no one has been able to do "This or this or this, " and thus it is still considered true and authentic. I suggest to you that the next time you get into dispute with someone about Islam and he claims that he has the truth and that you are in darkness, you leave all other arguments at first and make this suggestion. Ask him, "Is there any falsification test in your religion? Is there anything in your religion that would prove you are wrong if I could prove to you that it exists – anything?" Well, I can promise right now that people will not have anything – no test, no proof, nothing! This is because they do not carry around the idea that they should not only present what they believe but should also offer others a chance to prove they’re wrong. … read more »

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Calling the Qur’an amazing is not something done only by Muslims, who have an appreciation for the book and who are pleased with it; it has been labeled amazing by non-Muslims as well. In fact, even people who hate Islam very much have still called it amazing. One thing which surprises non_muslims who are examining the book very closely is that the Qur’an does not appear to them to be what they expected. What they assume is that they have an old book which came fourteen centuries ago from the Arabian desert; and they expect that the book should look something like that – an old book from the desert. And then they find out that it does not resemble what they expected at all. Additionally, one of the first things that some people assume is that because it is an old book which comes from the desert, it should talk about the desert. Well the Qur’an does talk about the desert – some of its imagery describes the desert; but it also talks about the sea – what it’s like to be in a storm on the sea. Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’an’s description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. Many centuries before the onset of Muhammed’s Prophethood, there was a well-known theory of atomism advanced by the Greek philosopher, Democritus. He and the people who came after him assumed that matter consists of tiny, indestructible, indivisible particles called atoms. The Arabs too, used to deal in the same concept; in fact, the Arabic word dharrah commonly referred to the smallest particle known to man. Now, modern science has discovered that this smallest unit of matter (i.e., the atom, which has all of the same properties as its element) can be split into its component parts. This is a new idea, a development of the last century; yet, interestingly enough, this information had already been documented in the Qur’an which states: " He [i.e., Allah] is aware of an atom’s weight in the heavens and on the earth and even anything smaller than that…" Undoubtedly, fourteen centuries ago that statement would have looked unusual, even to an Arab. For him, the dharrah was the smallest thing there was. Indeed, this is proof, that the Qur’an is not outdated. Another example of what one might expect to find in an"old book" that touches upon the subject of health or medicine is outdated remedies or cures. Various historical sources state that the Prophet gave some advice about health and hygiene, yet most of these pieces of advice are not contained in the Qur’an. At first glance, to the non-Muslims this appears to be a negligent omission. They cannot understand why Allah would not "include" such helpful information in the Qur’an. Some Muslims attempt to explain this absence with the following argument: "Although the Prophet’s advice was sound and applicable to the time in which he lived, Allah, in His infinite wisdom, knew that there would come later medical and scientific advances which would make the Prophet’s advice appear outdated. When later discoveries occurred, people might say that such information contradicted that which the Prophet had given. Thus, since Allah would never allow any opportunity for the non-Muslims to claim that the Qur’an contradicts itself or the teachings of the Prophet, He only included in the Qur’an information and examples which could stand the test of time." However, when one examines the true realities of the Qur’an in terms of its existence as a divine revelation, the entire matter is quickly brought into its proper perspective, and the error in such argumentation becomes clear and understandable. It must be understood that the Qur’an is a divine revelation, and as such, all information in it is of divine origin. Allah revealed the Qur’an from Himself. It is the words of Allah, which existed before creation, and thus nothing can be added, subtracted or altered. In essence, the Qur’an existed and was complete before the creation of Prophet Muhammed, so it could not possibly contain any of the Prophet’s own words or advice. An inclusion of such information would clearly contradict the purpose for which the Qur’an exists, compromise its authority and render it inauthentic as a divine revelation. Consequently, there was no "home remedies" in the Qur’an which one could claim to be outdated; nor does it contain any man’s view about what is beneficial to health, what food is best to eat, or what will cure this or that disease. In fact, the Qur’an only mentions one item dealing with medical treatment, and it is not in dispute by anyone. It states that in honey there is healing. And certainly, I do not think that there is anyone who will argue with that! If one assumes that the Qur’an is the product of a man’s mind, then one would expect it to reflect some of what was going on in the mind of the man who "composed" it. In fact, certain encyclopedias and various books clam that the Qur’an was the product of hallucinations that Muhammed underwent. If these claims are true – if it indeed originated from some psychological problems in Muhammed’s mind – then evidence of this would be apparent in the Qur’an. Is there such evidence? In order to determine whether or not there is, one must first identify what things would have been going on in his mind at that time and then search for these thoughts and reflections in the Qur’an. It is common knowledge that Muhammad had a very difficult life. All of his daughters died before him except one, and he had a wife of several years who was dear and important to him, who not only proceeded him in death at a very critical period of his life. As a matter of fact, she must have been quite a woman because when the first revelation came to him, he ran home to her afraid. Certainly, even today one would have a hard time trying to find an Arab who would tell you, "I was so afraid that I ran home to my wife." They just aren’t that way. Yet Muhammed felt comfortable enough with his wife to be able to do that. That’s how influential and strong woman she was. Although these examples are only a few of the subjects that would have been on Muhammed’s mind, they are sufficient in intensity to prove my point. The Qur’an does not mention any of these things – not the death of his children, not the death of his beloved companion and wife, not his fear of the initial revelations, which he so beautifully shared with his wife – nothing; yet, these topics must have hurt him, bothered him, and caused him pain and grief during periods of his psychological reflections, then these subjects, as well as others, would be prevalent or at least mentioned throughout. A truly scientific approach to the Qur’an is possible because the Qur’an offers something that is not offered by other religious scriptures, in particular, and other religions, in general. It is what scientists demand. Today there are many people who have ideas and theories about how the universe works. These people are all over the place, but the scientific community does not even bother to listen to them. This is because within the last century the scientific community has demanded a test of falsification. They say, "If you have theory, do not bother us with it unless you bring with that theory a way for us to prove whether you are wrong or not." Such a test was exactly why the scientific community listened to Einstein towards the beginning of the century. He came with a new theory and said, "I believe the universe works like this; and here are three ways to prove whether I am wrong!". So the scientific community subjected his theory to the tests, and within six years it passed all three. Of course, this does not prove that he was great, but it proves that he deserved to be listened to because he said, "This is my idea; and if you want to try to prove me wrong, do this or try that." This is exactly what the Qur’an has – falsification tests. Some are old (in that they have already been proven true), and some still exist today. Basically it states, "If this book is not what it claims to be, then all you have to do is this or this or this to prove that it is false." Of course, in 1400 years no one has been able to do "This or this or this, " and thus it is still considered true and authentic. I suggest to you that the next time you get into dispute with someone about Islam and he claims that he has the truth and that you are in darkness, you leave all other arguments at first and make this suggestion. Ask him, "Is there any falsification test in your religion? Is there anything in your religion that would prove you are wrong if I could prove to you that it exists – anything?" Well, I can promise right now that people will not have anything – no test, no proof, nothing! This is because they do not carry around the idea that they should not only present what they believe but should also offer others a chance to prove they’re wrong. … read more »

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Did you try snow-white or Pinocchio?  You will find those books amazing too.

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The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. From The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Click here to read full article at: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. From The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Click here to read full article at: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

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Muhammed had access to the Bible and Christian scriptures. It’s likely he used those fairy tale books, as well as other writings, when he cooked up his Koran. That is pretty stupid.  That is like saying Jesus used the religion of the Jews to cook up what would be called Christianity or Catholicism.

You don’t know your theology. Jesus never wrote a word. He didn’t present the world with a set of scriptures. Mary was approached by the Arch Angel Michael to inform  her that she would have a blessed son who would be king of the Jews.

So the storybook says. Abraham, Moses and Noah were approached directly by God and he revealed Judaism to them.

That’s what they claim. Muhammed was approached by the Arch Angel Gabriel and revealed to him God’s final testament, Islam and the followers would be called Muslims.

Muhammed had the Bible, or at least portions of it as well as the Christian tradition to draw on when he wrote the Koran. While once cannot seperate the intermingling of the religions, they are indeed different according to doctrines.  If they have any pieces of one another, it is because they are all DERIVED from the same source:  God.

Well, no, these fairy tales come from out of the heads of the people who invented them. Clough

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 [ insipid fable ]

Gee, that lame little fairy tale hints that your revered pervert must have hitched rides now and then with the slave traders who routinely captured Africans, castrated them, and sold them to the Chinese. I suppose he was looking for little African girls to screw. Of course it’s equally likely that one of the slavers actually wrote that part of the pervert’s guide to 7th Century living that still dictates every moment of the moslem drone’s life today.

Response:

Gee, that lame little fairy tale hints that your revered pervert must have hitched rides now and then with the slave traders who routinely captured Africans, castrated them, and sold them to the Chinese. I suppose he was looking for little African girls to screw. Of course it’s equally likely that one of the slavers actually wrote that part of the pervert’s guide to 7th Century living that still dictates every moment of the moslem drone’s life today.

Muhammed had access to the Bible and Christian scriptures. It’s likely he used those fairy tale books, as well as other writings, when he cooked up his Koran. Clough

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gee, that lame little fairy tale hints that your revered pervert must have hitched rides now and then with the slave traders who routinely captured Africans, castrated them, and sold them to the Chinese. I suppose he was looking for little African girls to screw. Of course it’s equally likely that one of the slavers actually wrote that part of the pervert’s guide to 7th Century living that still dictates every moment of the moslem drone’s life today. Muhammed had access to the Bible and Christian scriptures. It’s likely he used those fairy tale books, as well as other writings, when he cooked up his Koran. Clough

That is pretty stupid.  That is like saying Jesus used the religion of the Jews to cook up what would be called Christianity or Catholicism. Mary was approached by the Arch Angel Michael to inform  her that she would have a blessed son who would be king of the Jews. Abraham, Moses and Noah were approached directly by God and he revealed Judaism to them. Muhammed was approached by the Arch Angel Gabriel and revealed to him God’s final testament, Islam and the followers would be called Muslims. While once cannot seperate the intermingling of the religions, they are indeed different according to doctrines.  If they have any pieces of one another, it is because they are all DERIVED from the same source:  God. — The Best in Message Board Discussions http://www.comicboards.org/religion

Response:

The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto

Stop lying – you live in Montreal. This is available in Google about you: From the tent of Abu-Alwafa I am now hiding, somewhere in Montreal, my last known address is 8110 Pesant, Montreal, QC H1R 2Y2, Canada Before was 3965 Belanger Est #305, Montreal cancel all my posts) Peace be upon everyone ! I am sorry for posting all crap about ozlam over many years. I am a TROL and shall see psychiatrist. Please forgive me, one can live in denial for a while but he must accept the truth sooner or later. From today, I will be posting under my real name Wassim Adel Noujeim. I am Christian now waiting to be baptised in the name of the Christ, the only saviour we have on this planet. I need some Xstian education and I am inviting all JW, Mormons, and all other Xtrian sects and missionaries to visit me at my home. Please ignore camel shit on the entry – you will be greeted by my wife sheep. I promise I will use toilet paper in the future after water and electricity is connected to my tent as I thought they are product of infidel Xtians and I refused to live how they live until today. I am now cancelling my posts but please give me some time as I was posting hundreds of crap ozlam propaganda every day. I now understand that Satan was forcing me to post to Usenet under the handles: ago, sorry name, sorry and many others. Christ is the Lord, Mohammad is paedophile and liar !!! Arab contributions to civilization

There were many — but the question naturally comes up, "What have you contributed to civilization _lately_?"  Not a whole lot since about 1258 A.D., as far as I can see…

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  It’s pages are better than Charmin!   The Amazing Qur’an     Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in   the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him   a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing   about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an.   When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and   asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how   accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told,   "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was   enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed   with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the   sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also   been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a   wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea   to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who   knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the   Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the   scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from   the desert fourteen centuries ago.     From The Amazing Qur’an   by Gary Miller   Click here to read full article at:   http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm    

Response:

yes-QUORN is amazing food and very healthy-a fine soya substitute for meat. BUT IF FUCKING STINKS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amazing Qur’an Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur’an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur’an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a salior?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur’an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur’ans description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur’an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. From The Amazing Qur’an by Gary Miller Click here to read full article at: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_gmiller.htm

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