Christianity QA » Islam Christianity » Moslems – Nazis of Tommorrow
Question:
we kill ignorance not the righeous – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can the Moslems be someway taught to live with non-Moslems even when the Moslems are in a position of strength? Can you answer this question for me Mr. Murray? My beliefs? First, we can never overcome evil and wrongdoing by emulating those we scorn. Second, we can only bring about change by changing ourselves. The only true and effective means of change are by example. But I have to agree that this is difficult to follow. It seems to be much easier for most of us to exact our revenge, to hate anyone who is not like us. From there it is a small step to believe we can kill those who are different. No, I haven’t the answers. But it is far better to each of us to live our lives as an example rather than as an act of vengeance. Vengeance is like acid; it damages the vessel it is contained in more than the object it is poured upon. Bottom line: You hurt yourself more than anyone else by living a life of hate and bigotry. I don’t think I answered your question but it is the only answer I can give. That is the problem Mr. Murray. Only in a world where the noble humans hold power of life and death over the evil humans can there be peace on this planet. You will agree with this statement of mine. What you will not agree with is when i say that generally speaking, the non-moslems represent the noble (as their faiths at least do not ask them kill others) and Moslems are evil (as their faith asks them to kill all non-moslems). Mr. Murray, I have Moslems on other threads saying that "If Allah asks them to kill non-moslems then it would be an honor for them to kill non-moslems" And Mr. Murry those who say this are not illiterate desert nomads. They are educated and electronically-connected to the web. Search for the word afghana and you will see what I mean. As long as there are moslems who think this way, when we are on the verge of the 21st century, how do you say Mr. Murray, we should co-relate with Moslems, when they want to do us all non-moslems in? And moslems think this way, as the Quran askas them to kill non-Moslems And for Moslems they just cannot detach themselves from the Quran. There are exceptions like Mr. Rodey Green (another poster) but this is the exception that only proves that the rule is otherwise! Mr. Murray as you admit, you do not have an answer, and what you recommed is a sure shot for all no-moslems to commit suicide. The only hope lies in elimnating Islam. I’d prefer to live like a Bantu or an Eskimo, or a Red Indian, or a Maori. But never ever like a Moslem, never ever with a Moslem, never ever under a Moslem. I’d prefer to fight to death rather than live. I respect your pacifist approach Mr. Murray. But it simply cannot work. So Mr. Murray, although I want to agree with you, the ground realities cannot allow me to do so. This would be suicidal for non-moslems. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Except for the Crusades, not a single war was done in the name of Christianity. But what about the Islamic Ji’had? This war has been going on for the last 1400 (1377 years to be precise) since the 622 A.D. You invaded: Mecca in 622 (Beginning of the Moslem Hegira Era) Autas (Arabia) in 624 Tayef (Arabia) in 626 This happened during the lifetime of your prophet Mohammed. He himself led these attacks, where all Arabs who refused to submit to Islam were mercilessly killed. All Jews were killed, all Christians were killed. After that most arabs decided that prudence was the better part of valour and became Moslems. After Mohammed died, you moslems invaded the following countries under Abu Bakr: Palestine/Ertez Israel in 636 Zoroastrain Persia in 637 Egypt in 638 The other Khalifas continued the Ji’had by attacking and forcibly converting the pople of the following countries to Islam: North Africa in 650 Spain in 680 Sindh (India) in 715 France in 732 (Battle of Tours when we defeated the Moslem and stopped their advance into Western Europe) Khotan (Eastern China) in 1050 Punjab (India) in 1191 Kosovo in 1369 Indonesia and Malaysia in 1450 Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453 Vienna in 1689 This marked the end of the first phase of your Jihad, when European navigators took charge of the seas in the 15th century all over the world. Now the dirty head of the Islamic Jihad is popping up once again. It started in 1973 with; Israel in 1948-1999 Lebanon in 1973 Cyprus in 1975 Bosnia in 1996 Chechenya in 1997 Kosovo in 1998-99 Ethiopia in 1999 Kashmir in 1999 Now let’s see if you succeed in overrunning the world and converting this entire planet to Islam or we finally see the end of the Ilsmaic threat to civilization. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – VIETNAM WORLD WAR ! AND !! CRUSADES BALKAN WARS REVOLUTIONS SOUTH AMERICA are but an example but they dont waannna hear the truth so just loll loll lool ollol lol llo lll ooll lol hahahaha why is hard hard for non-muslims to accept that there are worst killers and terrorism acts done by non-muslims that history has shown to the world. do non-muslims do not have human weakness. i’m just saying humans are humans eveywhere under the sky. As long as Moslems are a minority, they would be forced to respect the laws of the land. But the minute they have the upper hand either iin numbers of by a military victory, they want to impose by brute force their creed on all the others. This has happened in Sudan, Eritrea, Chechenya, Pakistan, Bangadesh, Lebanon and many other parts of the globe where the Moslems have got the upper hand. In implementing their creed, they have used all foul means. This we know by the experience of the last 1400 years. Can the Moslems be someway taught to live with non-Moslems even when the Moslems are in a position of strength?
Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
VIETNAM WORLD WAR ! AND !! CRUSADES BALKAN WARS REVOLUTIONS SOUTH AMERICA are but an example but they dont waannna hear the truth so just loll loll lool ollol lol llo lll ooll lol hahahaha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – why is hard hard for non-muslims to accept that there are worst killers and terrorism acts done by non-muslims that history has shown to the world. do non-muslims do not have human weakness. i’m just saying humans are humans eveywhere under the sky. As long as Moslems are a minority, they would be forced to respect the laws of the land. But the minute they have the upper hand either iin numbers of by a military victory, they want to impose by brute force their creed on all the others. This has happened in Sudan, Eritrea, Chechenya, Pakistan, Bangadesh, Lebanon and many other parts of the globe where the Moslems have got the upper hand. In implementing their creed, they have used all foul means. This we know by the experience of the last 1400 years. Can the Moslems be someway taught to live with non-Moslems even when the Moslems are in a position of strength?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can the Moslems be someway taught to live with non-Moslems even when the Moslems are in a position of strength? Can you answer this question for me Mr. Murray? My beliefs? First, we can never overcome evil and wrongdoing by emulating those we scorn. Second, we can only bring about change by changing ourselves. The only true and effective means of change are by example. But I have to agree that this is difficult to follow. It seems to be much easier for most of us to exact our revenge, to hate anyone who is not like us. From there it is a small step to believe we can kill those who are different. No, I haven’t the answers. But it is far better to each of us to live our lives as an example rather than as an act of vengeance. Vengeance is like acid; it damages the vessel it is contained in more than the object it is poured upon. Bottom line: You hurt yourself more than anyone else by living a life of hate and bigotry. I don’t think I answered your question but it is the only answer I can
give. That is the problem Mr. Murray. Only in a world where the noble humans hold power of life and death over the evil humans can there be peace on this planet. You will agree with this statement of mine. What you will not agree with is when i say that generally speaking, the non-moslems represent the noble (as their faiths at least do not ask them kill others) and Moslems are evil (as their faith asks them to kill all non-moslems). Mr. Murray, I have Moslems on other threads saying that "If Allah asks them to kill non-moslems then it would be an honor for them to kill non-moslems" And Mr. Murry those who say this are not illiterate desert nomads. They are educated and electronically-connected to the web. Search for the word afghana and you will see what I mean. As long as there are moslems who think this way, when we are on the verge of the 21st century, how do you say Mr. Murray, we should co-relate with Moslems, when they want to do us all non-moslems in? And moslems think this way, as the Quran askas them to kill non-Moslems And for Moslems they just cannot detach themselves from the Quran. There are exceptions like Mr. Rodey Green (another poster) but this is the exception that only proves that the rule is otherwise! Mr. Murray as you admit, you do not have an answer, and what you recommed is a sure shot for all no-moslems to commit suicide. The only hope lies in elimnating Islam. I’d prefer to live like a Bantu or an Eskimo, or a Red Indian, or a Maori. But never ever like a Moslem, never ever with a Moslem, never ever under a Moslem. I’d prefer to fight to death rather than live. I respect your pacifist approach Mr. Murray. But it simply cannot work. So Mr. Murray, although I want to agree with you, the ground realities cannot allow me to do so. This would be suicidal for non-moslems. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
why is hard hard for non-muslims to accept that there are worst killers and terrorism acts done by non-muslims that history has shown to the world. do non-muslims do not have human weakness. i’m just saying humans are humans eveywhere under the sky.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As long as Moslems are a minority, they would be forced to respect the laws of the land. But the minute they have the upper hand either iin numbers of by a military victory, they want to impose by brute force their creed on all the others. This has happened in Sudan, Eritrea, Chechenya, Pakistan, Bangadesh, Lebanon and many other parts of the globe where the Moslems have got the upper hand. In implementing their creed, they have used all foul means. This we know by the experience of the last 1400 years. Can the Moslems be someway taught to live with non-Moslems even when the Moslems are in a position of strength?
Response:
So be it then. I’ll still say that I feel sorry for you folks as humans. But then you Moslems think of yourselves as Moslems first and Human second. Personally, rather than eliminating on-fifth of humankind (Humans who believe in the blood-curdling Quran), I’d prefer a brainwashing machine to put ALL humans through so as to have everyone all over the world who has love, compassion and respect for everyone else.
Why don’t you leave this ng and begin work on your machin right away. A world where nobody talks of cutting off the heads of kafirs in a Ji’had, making wide slaughter in the land where kafirs live and consquently there is no retaliatory violence to wipe all those who stand for and practice violence, because their "holy book" (Quran) says so. The Old and New Testament may also prescribe violence for sinners in hell. But that is other worldly.
Eye for an eye…… Hebrews enter Canaan and they are told to do what? It does not take Christians and Jews towards terrorist acts
It does not stop them either. as it does in the case of the followers of the Quran.
It is not the Quran that drives people to terrorism, it is revenge. Whew! When are we humans goin to learn to shed hatred and not blood. Not as long as ther are followers of the Quran on this Planet, I guess!
Take the intiative, shed your own hatred, leave us Muslims alone.
Response:
Can the Moslems be someway taught to live with non-Moslems even when the Moslems are in a position of strength? Can you answer this question for me Mr. Murray?
My beliefs? First, we can never overcome evil and wrongdoing by emulating those we scorn. Second, we can only bring about change by changing ourselves. The only true and effective means of change are by example. But I have to agree that this is difficult to follow. It seems to be much easier for most of us to exact our revenge, to hate anyone who is not like us. From there it is a small step to believe we can kill those who are different. No, I haven’t the answers. But it is far better to each of us to live our lives as an example rather than as an act of vengeance. Vengeance is like acid; it damages the vessel it is contained in more than the object it is poured upon. Bottom line: You hurt yourself more than anyone else by living a life of hate and bigotry. I don’t think I answered your question but it is the only answer I can give. Warmest best wishes, ,urray
Response:
The only way I know to deal with this issue is to take people as individuals rather than as a group.
Der Mr. Murray, What do you do in a world made up of mobs. The Moslem Mob (the most dangerous of all mobs), the Christian Mob, the Jewish Mob, the Hindu Mob, The Buddhist Mob, the Negro Mob…… etc.? I have given up the religion of my birth Christianity. Although in Christian eyes, I fell from grace when I decided to embrace Islam. I was a Moslem for a few years. Then when I realised what I’m in for as I began to understand the Quran, I gave it up to return to Christianity. This made me a Murtad in Moslem eyes. Moslems are supposed to Kill Murtads. Now I am so disenchanted with the mob mentality that I’d like mobocracy to go away and we should get down to the business of living. And extend the frontiers of human civilization to the other planets. But how do we do this till there are peopole of our onw kind (humans) who want to convert by force everyone else to their creed – and that too a barbaric creed fit only for the old stone age? As long as Moslems who believe in the Quran and act according to its murderous prescriptions can there be peace Mr. Murray. The Old and New Testaments do not call for violence against the non-Jewish and Non-Christians, but the Quran certainly does. How does one tackle this problem? As long as Moslems are a minority, they would be forced to respect the laws of the land. But the minute they have the upper hand either iin numbers of by a military victory, they want to impose by brute force their creed on all the others. This has happened in Sudan, Eritrea, Chechenya, Pakistan, Bangadesh, Lebanon and many other parts of the globe where the Moslems have got the upper hand. In implementing their creed, they have used all foul means. This we know by the experience of the last 1400 years. Can the Moslems be someway taught to live with non-Moslems even when the Moslems are in a position of strength? Can you answer this question for me Mr. Murray? Peace, if possible – Christopher Fernandez With best wishes, ,urray
Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I disown the past crusades becuz dey was to fuck you Moslems. We came there as Christians last time around. Dis time on, we’ll come over simply as humans and will not stop till we’ve fucked all you sub-human buggers to death, till the last of the wretched moslem* on earth lies dead under thermonuclear radioactive fallout. Got it afghana. ___ *By Moslems I am referring to only those who believe in the bloodcurdling Quran. This would be all Muslims, since to be a Muslim you must follow the holy Quran.
So be it then. I’ll still say that I feel sorry for you folks as humans. But then you Moslems think of yourselves as Moslems first and Human second. Personally, rather than eliminating on-fifth of humankind (Humans who believe in the blood-curdling Quran), I’d prefer a brainwashing machine to put ALL humans through so as to have everyone all over the world who has love, compassion and respect for everyone else. A world where nobody talks of cutting off the heads of kafirs in a Ji’had, making wide slaughter in the land where kafirs live and consquently there is no retaliatory violence to wipe all those who stand for and practice violence, because their "holy book" (Quran) says so. The Old and New Testament may also prescribe violence for sinners in hell. But that is other worldly. It does not take Christians and Jews towards terrorist acts as it does in the case of the followers of the Quran. Whew! When are we humans goin to learn to shed hatred and not blood. Not as long as ther are followers of the Quran on this Planet, I guess! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I disown the past crusades becuz dey was to fuck you Moslems. We came there as Christians last time around. Dis time on, we’ll come over simply as humans and will not stop till we’ve fucked all you sub-human buggers to death, till the last of the wretched moslem* on earth lies dead under thermonuclear radioactive fallout. Got it afghana. ___ *By Moslems I am referring to only those who believe in the bloodcurdling Quran.
This would be all Muslims, since to be a Muslim you must follow the holy Quran.
Response:
And since I consider the Nazis to be evil, I have equated them with the Moslems, in the title of this post. I cannot be anti-semitic, simply because I consider myself a citizen of the world. I am not even anti-Moslem really, what i am against is the earthly war of hatred preached by the Quran and which Moslems not just believe but practice today. The Nazis are gone and hopefullly will never ever come back. But the Moslems are a threat of today and more importantly tomorrow. The Moslem madness is yet to be eliminated. I hope I have conveyed my viewpoint properly.
Yes, you have and have presented a more effective argument for your views. I was pleased to hear that you are not anti-Moslem but rather against the earthly war of hatred. I do not believe that all Moslems believe and practice hatred and that we must support and reinforce those with a constructive view, which I believe are in the vast majority. It is the very loud minority, the lunatic fringe that provokes hatred and what ensues. Although I am Jewish and proud to be so, I condemn all who abuse their religion to mask their hatred and venom towards others. I wish I could be optimistic enough to say I foresee an end to the bigotry and hatred that seems to be such an integral part of the human species. The only way I know to deal with this issue is to take people as individuals rather than as a group. With best wishes, ,urray
Response:
I disown the past crusades becuz dey was to fuck you Moslems. We came there as Christians last time around. Dis time on, we’ll come over simply as humans and will not stop till we’ve fucked all you sub-human buggers to death, till the last of the wretched moslem* on earth lies dead under thermonuclear radioactive fallout. Got it afghana. ___ *By Moslems I am referring to only those who believe in the bloodcurdling Quran. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what do u call the CRUSADES in Finally some sensible response from Moslems like Murray and Green. I know that the Quran forbids drinking, adultery, smoking, robbery, etc. All this is fine. But my point is that, today we require neither the 10 Commandments, nor the Sermon on the Mount, nor the Sharia (and the Quran) to behave like responsible human beings. Are we not mature enough to tell ourselves that I should not covet my neighbour’s wife, because civilized human society require such self-imposed restrictions. Drinking, smoking, etc can be done to the extent that they are not socially harmful. Now let’s turn to the hideous violence that you speak about. Both in the Old Testamanet and the New Testament (as in the Quran) there is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow the 10 Commandments and whatever rules of good conduct and good behaviour have been recommended. The Quran also has such rules (considering that the Quran is nothing but the Old and New Testaments adapted by Mohammed to his beliefs). But what I take exception to is the inujunctions in the Quran that call for "cutting of the heads of Kafirs in a Jihad", "making wide slaughter in the land". Surely this Jihad is to be fought on earth and the Moselms are not going to fight a Jihad in Heaven (Jan’nat) as there would be no sinners there. Fighting a Jihad in Hell (Jehen’num) is fine but for doing this righteous folks would have to go to hell. And how does one go to hell withoug commiting sins. And Sinners who land up in Hell cannot fight a holy war! So folks how do you resolve this. Hence the Quranic injunctions are for fighting against your fellow human beings on earth. This is the Moslem Problem. All this I say is applicable also to Christians and Jews as well, apart from Moslems. But my tirade has been against Moslems and not against Christians and Jews because, neither does the Old Testament not the New Testament call for fighting a Ji’had on earth as the Quran does, with devastating success and with equally morbid and mind-numbing violence. This is what makes Islam objectionable – but not Judaism or Christianity. I hope I have conveyed my viewpoint properly. Again the general Moslem mind is totally opposed to look at the Quran in a fresh light. The Quran which was backward for even the age when it was born 1400 years, is sought to be preserved today and in the future, when it is becoming increasingly clearer that Islam and all that it represents is not just anachronistic but is certainly dangerous to human progress. The Qur’ran has a great many very specific requirements for good conduct. The rest of the Qur’an is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow those rules. However, I think you have to quote out of context to make it look as though the Qur’an actively promotes evil. Islam is much like Christian fundamentalism. I have noticed on MANY occasions Christian fundamentalists attempting to interfere with my civil rights. Even though there are plenty of Muslims in my city I can’t think of a single time when they attempted to interfere. Please focus your energy on the dangerous religious bigots. See http://mindprod.com/christianity.html for my argument why you should change the target of your ire. Stop the Makah Whale Sacrifice <http://mindprod.com/whale.html — Roedy Green, Canadian Mind Products -30- Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
it is not a view but ignorance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yes Sir, I have read the Bible (Old and new Testaments) – Catholic Edition Published by Collins as well as the Quran. But my point is that, today we require neither the 10 Commandments, nor the Sermon on the Mount, nor the Sharia (and the Quran) to behave like responsible human beings. Are we not mature enough to tell ourselves that I should not covet my neighbour’s wife, because civilized human society require such self-imposed restrictions. Drinking, smoking, etc can be done to the extent that they are not socially harmful. Now let’s turn to the hideous violence that is there in the Bible and the Quran. Both in the Old Testamanet and the New Testament (as in the Quran) there is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow the 10 Commandments and whatever rules of good conduct and good behaviour have been recommended. The Quran also has such rules (considering that the Quran is nothing but the Old and New Testaments adapted by Mohammed to his beliefs). But what I take exception to is the inujunctions in the Quran that call for "cutting of the heads of Kafirs in a Jihad", "making wide slaughter in the land". Surely this Jihad is to be fought on earth and the Moselms are not going to fight a Jihad in Heaven (Jan’nat) as there would be no sinners there. Fighting a Jihad in Hell (Jehen’num) is fine but for doing this righteous folks would have to go to hell. And how does one go to hell withoug commiting sins. And Sinners who land up in Hell cannot fight a holy war! So folks how do you resolve this. Hence the Quranic injunctions are for fighting against your fellow human beings on earth. This is the Moslem Problem. All this I say is applicable also to Christians and Jews as well, apart from Moslems. But my tirade has been against Moslems and not against Christians and Jews because, neither does the Old Testament not the New Testament call for fighting a Ji’had on earth as the Quran does, with devastating success and with equally morbid and mind-numbing violence. This is what makes Islam objectionable – but not Judaism or Christianity. About the Nazi Holocaust and the inquisition, I have nothing but contempt for the Nazis and my deranged co-religionists who presecurted the Jews. And had the Holy Father spoken against Hitler, then his friend Mussolini would have done something dirty to the Pope. However, I feel that the Pope should have spoken out. Anyway, I for one hang my head in shame for what was done to innocent Jews. And I do not agree with some posters on this thread who may try to justify the genocide against the Jews in WWII. Most Jews are businessmen and successful businessmen are rich. And being rich is no crime. And since I consider the Nazis to be evil, I have equated them with the Moslems, in the title of this post. I cannot be anti-semitic, simply because I consider myself a citizen of the world. I am not even anti-Moslem really, what i am against is the earthly war of hatred preached by the Quran and which Moslems not just believe but practice today. The Nazis are gone and hopefullly will never ever come back. But the Moslems are a threat of today and more importantly tomorrow. The Moslem madness is yet to be eliminated. I hope I have conveyed my viewpoint properly. – Christopher Fernandez Islam remains the barbaric creed that it is and this statement is being made on three grounds: – the merits of Islam as revelaed by the Quran which all Moslems are supposed to conform to; – the actions of some Moslems which are in line with the murderous injunctions of the Quran and; – the failure of the rest of the Moslems to condemn and disassociate themsleves from these terrorist acts. Again the general Moslem mind is totally opposed to look at the Quran in a fresh light. The Quran which was backward for even the age when it was born 1400 years, is sought to be preserved today and in the future, when it is becoming increasingly clearer that Islam and all that it represents is not just anachronistic but is certainly dangerous to human progress. Have you read the bible? It doesn’t get much bloodier than that. All religins are alike and unfortunately extremists in ALL religions have scriptures to draw upon in exercising their own brands of bigotry and prejudice. All you are doing is more of the same, only this time around you are conveniently forgetting the Inquisition and inserting Islamic fundamentalists. It apparently runs off your back that most Muslims disavow these extremists/terrorists. And most do, IMHO. Probably a greater percentage than Spanish Christians while Torquemada was exercising his Christian duties or Lutherans while Hitler carried out the most gruesome persecutions with a nod and a wink from the Pope, who supposedly has a direct line to God. And, it was only after the fact that the Serbian clergy chastised Milosevic. Now I fully expect that the Albanian muslims will exact their own revenge, again under the aegis of their own religion. And so it goes. – Christopher Fernandez Nice to see you sign your name and also to articulate your viewpoint in language other than blind hatred and bigotry. I disagree with your isolating Islam when all religions are guilty of the same crimes against humanity. With best wishes, ,urray BTW, I am proud to be a Jew and ashamed of crimes against others perpetrated in the name of my religion. A pox on all exremists/fundamentalists/terrorists, under whichever religious umbrella they carry out what you condemn only Islam for. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
what do u call the CRUSADES – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Finally some sensible response from Moslems like Murray and Green. I know that the Quran forbids drinking, adultery, smoking, robbery, etc. All this is fine. But my point is that, today we require neither the 10 Commandments, nor the Sermon on the Mount, nor the Sharia (and the Quran) to behave like responsible human beings. Are we not mature enough to tell ourselves that I should not covet my neighbour’s wife, because civilized human society require such self-imposed restrictions. Drinking, smoking, etc can be done to the extent that they are not socially harmful. Now let’s turn to the hideous violence that you speak about. Both in the Old Testamanet and the New Testament (as in the Quran) there is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow the 10 Commandments and whatever rules of good conduct and good behaviour have been recommended. The Quran also has such rules (considering that the Quran is nothing but the Old and New Testaments adapted by Mohammed to his beliefs). But what I take exception to is the inujunctions in the Quran that call for "cutting of the heads of Kafirs in a Jihad", "making wide slaughter in the land". Surely this Jihad is to be fought on earth and the Moselms are not going to fight a Jihad in Heaven (Jan’nat) as there would be no sinners there. Fighting a Jihad in Hell (Jehen’num) is fine but for doing this righteous folks would have to go to hell. And how does one go to hell withoug commiting sins. And Sinners who land up in Hell cannot fight a holy war! So folks how do you resolve this. Hence the Quranic injunctions are for fighting against your fellow human beings on earth. This is the Moslem Problem. All this I say is applicable also to Christians and Jews as well, apart from Moslems. But my tirade has been against Moslems and not against Christians and Jews because, neither does the Old Testament not the New Testament call for fighting a Ji’had on earth as the Quran does, with devastating success and with equally morbid and mind-numbing violence. This is what makes Islam objectionable – but not Judaism or Christianity. I hope I have conveyed my viewpoint properly. Again the general Moslem mind is totally opposed to look at the Quran in a fresh light. The Quran which was backward for even the age when it was born 1400 years, is sought to be preserved today and in the future, when it is becoming increasingly clearer that Islam and all that it represents is not just anachronistic but is certainly dangerous to human progress. The Qur’ran has a great many very specific requirements for good conduct. The rest of the Qur’an is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow those rules. However, I think you have to quote out of context to make it look as though the Qur’an actively promotes evil. Islam is much like Christian fundamentalism. I have noticed on MANY occasions Christian fundamentalists attempting to interfere with my civil rights. Even though there are plenty of Muslims in my city I can’t think of a single time when they attempted to interfere. Please focus your energy on the dangerous religious bigots. See http://mindprod.com/christianity.html for my argument why you should change the target of your ire. Stop the Makah Whale Sacrifice <http://mindprod.com/whale.html — Roedy Green, Canadian Mind Products -30- Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Finally some sensible response from Moslems like Murray and Green. I know that the Quran forbids drinking, adultery, smoking, robbery, etc. All this is fine. But my point is that, today we require neither the 10 Commandments, nor the Sermon on the Mount, nor the Sharia (and the Quran) to behave like responsible human beings. Are we not mature enough to tell ourselves that I should not covet my neighbour’s wife, because civilized human society require such self-imposed restrictions. Drinking, smoking, etc can be done to the extent that they are not socially harmful. Now let’s turn to the hideous violence that you speak about. Both in the Old Testamanet and the New Testament (as in the Quran) there is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow the 10 Commandments and whatever rules of good conduct and good behaviour have been recommended. The Quran also has such rules (considering that the Quran is nothing but the Old and New Testaments adapted by Mohammed to his beliefs). But what I take exception to is the inujunctions in the Quran that call for "cutting of the heads of Kafirs in a Jihad", "making wide slaughter in the land". Surely this Jihad is to be fought on earth and the Moselms are not going to fight a Jihad in Heaven (Jan’nat) as there would be no sinners there. Fighting a Jihad in Hell (Jehen’num) is fine but for doing this righteous folks would have to go to hell. And how does one go to hell withoug commiting sins. And Sinners who land up in Hell cannot fight a holy war! So folks how do you resolve this. Hence the Quranic injunctions are for fighting against your fellow human beings on earth. This is the Moslem Problem. All this I say is applicable also to Christians and Jews as well, apart from Moslems. But my tirade has been against Moslems and not against Christians and Jews because, neither does the Old Testament not the New Testament call for fighting a Ji’had on earth as the Quran does, with devastating success and with equally morbid and mind-numbing violence. This is what makes Islam objectionable – but not Judaism or Christianity. I hope I have conveyed my viewpoint properly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again the general Moslem mind is totally opposed to look at the Quran in a fresh light. The Quran which was backward for even the age when it was born 1400 years, is sought to be preserved today and in the future, when it is becoming increasingly clearer that Islam and all that it represents is not just anachronistic but is certainly dangerous to human progress. The Qur’ran has a great many very specific requirements for good conduct. The rest of the Qur’an is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow those rules. However, I think you have to quote out of context to make it look as though the Qur’an actively promotes evil. Islam is much like Christian fundamentalism. I have noticed on MANY occasions Christian fundamentalists attempting to interfere with my civil rights. Even though there are plenty of Muslims in my city I can’t think of a single time when they attempted to interfere. Please focus your energy on the dangerous religious bigots. See http://mindprod.com/christianity.html for my argument why you should change the target of your ire. Stop the Makah Whale Sacrifice <http://mindprod.com/whale.html — Roedy Green, Canadian Mind Products -30-
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Response:
Yes Sir, I have read the Bible (Old and new Testaments) – Catholic Edition Published by Collins as well as the Quran. But my point is that, today we require neither the 10 Commandments, nor the Sermon on the Mount, nor the Sharia (and the Quran) to behave like responsible human beings. Are we not mature enough to tell ourselves that I should not covet my neighbour’s wife, because civilized human society require such self-imposed restrictions. Drinking, smoking, etc can be done to the extent that they are not socially harmful. Now let’s turn to the hideous violence that is there in the Bible and the Quran. Both in the Old Testamanet and the New Testament (as in the Quran) there is a set of hideously violent threats about what will happen to you after you die if you don’t follow the 10 Commandments and whatever rules of good conduct and good behaviour have been recommended. The Quran also has such rules (considering that the Quran is nothing but the Old and New Testaments adapted by Mohammed to his beliefs). But what I take exception to is the inujunctions in the Quran that call for "cutting of the heads of Kafirs in a Jihad", "making wide slaughter in the land". Surely this Jihad is to be fought on earth and the Moselms are not going to fight a Jihad in Heaven (Jan’nat) as there would be no sinners there. Fighting a Jihad in Hell (Jehen’num) is fine but for doing this righteous folks would have to go to hell. And how does one go to hell withoug commiting sins. And Sinners who land up in Hell cannot fight a holy war! So folks how do you resolve this. Hence the Quranic injunctions are for fighting against your fellow human beings on earth. This is the Moslem Problem. All this I say is applicable also to Christians and Jews as well, apart from Moslems. But my tirade has been against Moslems and not against Christians and Jews because, neither does the Old Testament not the New Testament call for fighting a Ji’had on earth as the Quran does, with devastating success and with equally morbid and mind-numbing violence. This is what makes Islam objectionable – but not Judaism or Christianity. About the Nazi Holocaust and the inquisition, I have nothing but contempt for the Nazis and my deranged co-religionists who presecurted the Jews. And had the Holy Father spoken against Hitler, then his friend Mussolini would have done something dirty to the Pope. However, I feel that the Pope should have spoken out. Anyway, I for one hang my head in shame for what was done to innocent Jews. And I do not agree with some posters on this thread who may try to justify the genocide against the Jews in WWII. Most Jews are businessmen and successful businessmen are rich. And being rich is no crime. And since I consider the Nazis to be evil, I have equated them with the Moslems, in the title of this post. I cannot be anti-semitic, simply because I consider myself a citizen of the world. I am not even anti-Moslem really, what i am against is the earthly war of hatred preached by the Quran and which Moslems not just believe but practice today. The Nazis are gone and hopefullly will never ever come back. But the Moslems are a threat of today and more importantly tomorrow. The Moslem madness is yet to be eliminated. I hope I have conveyed my viewpoint properly. – Christopher Fernandez – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Islam remains the barbaric creed that it is and this statement is being made on three grounds: – the merits of Islam as revelaed by the Quran which all Moslems are supposed to conform to; – the actions of some Moslems which are in line with the murderous injunctions of the Quran and; – the failure of the rest of the Moslems to condemn and disassociate themsleves from these terrorist acts. Again the general Moslem mind is totally opposed to look at the Quran in a fresh light. The Quran which was backward for even the age when it was born 1400 years, is sought to be preserved today and in the future, when it is becoming increasingly clearer that Islam and all that it represents is not just anachronistic but is certainly dangerous to human progress. Have you read the bible? It doesn’t get much bloodier than that. All religins are alike and unfortunately extremists in ALL religions have scriptures to draw upon in exercising their own brands of bigotry and prejudice. All you are doing is more of the same, only this time around you are conveniently forgetting the Inquisition and inserting Islamic fundamentalists. It apparently runs off your back that most Muslims disavow these extremists/terrorists. And most do, IMHO. Probably a greater percentage than Spanish Christians while Torquemada was exercising his Christian duties or Lutherans while Hitler carried out the most gruesome persecutions with a nod and a wink from the Pope, who supposedly has a direct line to God. And, it was only after the fact that the Serbian clergy chastised Milosevic. Now I fully expect that the Albanian muslims will exact their own revenge, again under the aegis of their own religion. And so it goes. – Christopher Fernandez Nice to see you sign your name and also to articulate your viewpoint in language other than blind hatred and bigotry. I disagree with your isolating Islam when all religions are guilty of the same crimes against humanity. With best wishes, ,urray BTW, I am proud to be a Jew and ashamed of crimes against others perpetrated in the name of my religion. A pox on all exremists/fundamentalists/terrorists, under whichever religious umbrella they carry out what you condemn only Islam for.
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