Christian Evangelicals in Iraq: A Time-Bomb Waiting to Explode

Christianity QA » Islam Christianity » Christian Evangelicals in Iraq: A Time-Bomb Waiting to Explode

Islam Christianity

Question:

I do not consider Islam to be a "missionary" religion. Nor have I ever felt it my "mission" to ram it down other people’s throat like the missionaries do. Viqar Ahmed Replies: Ramming down on people’s throat is wrong,of course. Viqar make a very interesting point,and worth to take note.Is his religion true or false?If your religion is false,and there is no saving grace in it,why should one preach and help others see the light?Is Islam religion any virtue, worth to bring it to others?There is none so there is no need to get missionary to do the work of spreading the message of Islam. The Christians are differant.There is a message of Judgement to come that human must shun away from it,and there is Salvation which come only in Jesus.If Christians truly believe in their religion,they must have that passion and convictions. If people do not have convictions and passion in their religion,like Viqar;then there is no need to spread its message. In other words,people who are not serious in their religion,want others not to regard them as serious people,but mere secular folks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Islamic "dawah" is centered around providing infromation, educating, and answering questions. You wouldn’t find me accosting you on the street, or knocking on your door, insisting upon "saving" you from anything. Viqar Ahmed I’m not so sure about that. This is not, after all, a matter of mere tolerance and multiculturalism, as the West practices it, but a matter of bringing the light of Islam to the jahali kufr (ignorant unbelievers). As a Muslim, it’s your duty not only to educate non-Muslims about Islam’s sublime principles, but also to present it in such a way that would make them want to embrace Islam. I don’t see what is objectionable in that. If you have a POV to present, how would you present it? With the objective to convince others, or get them to run away from it? Further, are you equating that to accosting people by phone, in person, and pounding at their doors (I personally went thru all this during my student days in US) to information dissemination and invitation, which Islamic dawah is supposed to be. After all, Islam is mankind’s "natural religion;" perfect for all people at all times. It’s egalitarian, democratic, and upholds the dignity of women. It has perfected and corrected the corruptions of Christianity and Judaism, but needs no correction or perfection itself, for it is already perfect. What’s not to love, right? Anyhow, here’s a little site for the lurkers. It’s called…. http://www.thetruereligion.org/convertwave.htm ….the true religion, as opposed to all those jahali (ignorant) ones we’ve been exposed to. To be honest, I don’t know of anyone who believes in what he/she believes knowing that it is not the truth. This is true for you, me, and everyone else. If I did not believe Islam to be the truth why would I believe in it in the first place? Muslims complain that Christianity is a missionary religion. But, as you have admitted, so is Islam. So that about wraps up this conversation, as far as I’m concerned. I do not consider Islam to be a "missionary" religion. Nor have I ever felt it my "mission" to ram it down other people’s throat like the missionaries do. Viqar Ahmed — Usenet Newsgroup Service New Rate! $9.95/Month 50GB

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Islamic "dawah" is centered around providing infromation, educating, and answering questions. You wouldn’t find me accosting you on the street, or knocking on your door, insisting upon "saving" you from anything. Viqar Ahmed I’m not so sure about that. This is not, after all, a matter of mere tolerance and multiculturalism, as the West practices it, but a matter of bringing the light of Islam to the jahali kufr (ignorant unbelievers). As a Muslim, it’s your duty not only to educate non-Muslims about Islam’s sublime principles, but also to present it in such a way that would make them want to embrace Islam. I don’t see what is objectionable in that. If you have a POV to present, how would you present it? With the objective to convince others, or get them to run away from it? Further, are you equating that to accosting people by phone, in person, and pounding at their doors (I personally went thru all this during my student days in US) to information dissemination and invitation, which Islamic dawah is supposed to be. After all, Islam is mankind’s "natural religion;" perfect for all people at all times. It’s egalitarian, democratic, and upholds the dignity of women. It has perfected and corrected the corruptions of Christianity and Judaism, but needs no correction or perfection itself, for it is already perfect. What’s not to love, right? Anyhow, here’s a little site for the lurkers. It’s called…. http://www.thetruereligion.org/convertwave.htm ….the true religion, as opposed to all those jahali (ignorant) ones we’ve been exposed to. To be honest, I don’t know of anyone who believes in what he/she believes knowing that it is not the truth. This is true for you, me, and everyone else. If I did not believe Islam to be the truth why would I believe in it in the first place?

Muslims complain that Christianity is a missionary religion. But, as you have admitted, so is Islam. So that about wraps up this conversation, as far as I’m concerned. Lisa

Response:

I do not consider Islam to be a "missionary" religion. Nor have I ever felt it my "mission" to ram it down other people’s throat like the missionaries do. Viqar Ahmed — Usenet Newsgroup Service New Rate! $9.95/Month 50GB

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not consider Islam to be a "missionary" religion. Nor have I ever felt it my "mission" to ram it down other people’s throat like the missionaries do. Viqar Ahmed Replies: Ramming down on people’s throat is wrong,of course. Viqar make a very interesting point,and worth to take note.Is his religion true or false?If your religion is false,and there is no saving grace in it,why should one preach and help others see the light?Is Islam religion any virtue, worth to bring it to others?There is none so there is no need to get missionary to do the work of spreading the message of Islam. The Christians are differant.There is a message of Judgement to come that human must shun away from it,and there is Salvation which come only in Jesus.If Christians truly believe in their religion,they must have that passion and convictions. If people do not have convictions and passion in their religion,like Viqar;then there is no need to spread its message. In other words,people who are not serious in their religion,want others not to regard them as serious people,but mere secular folks.

Actually, Viqar is very passionate about his faith, and is absolutely convinced of it truth (which is why he hold it in the first place). OTOH, any faith which has to be promoted at the cost of lying and deceiving, and misrepresenting the beliefs of others, such as Pentecoastal evangelical Christinaity, is a disease not a faith. Viqar Ahmed — Usenet Newsgroup Service New Rate! $9.95/Month 50GB

Response:

I don’t see what is objectionable in that. If you have a POV to present, how would you present it? With the objective to convince others, or get them to run away from it? Further, are you equating that to accosting people by phone, in person, and pounding at their doors (I personally went thru all this during my student days in US) to information dissemination and invitation, which Islamic dawah is supposed to be. After all, Islam is mankind’s "natural religion;" perfect for all people at all times. It’s egalitarian, democratic, and upholds the dignity of women. It has perfected and corrected the corruptions of Christianity and Judaism, but needs no correction or perfection itself, for it is already perfect. What’s not to love, right? Anyhow, here’s a little site for the lurkers. It’s called…. http://www.thetruereligion.org/convertwave.htm ….the true religion, as opposed to all those jahali (ignorant) ones we’ve been exposed to.

To be honest, I don’t know of anyone who believes in what he/she believes knowing that it is not the truth. This is true for you, me, and everyone else. If I did not believe Islam to be the truth why would I believe in it in the first place? And if I believed that there are many truth, all equally valid, out there then I wouldn’t subscribe to any religion but rather to "the truth" in my own mind (namely that there are many truths). Whatever it is, my convictions, to me, would mean "the truth". That much being obvious (with little reflection), I find it unsusual that you would take offense at muslims believing in Islam as "the truth". What is you view of your own convictions? And why do you have them? Viqar Ahmed — Usenet Newsgroup Service New Rate! $9.95/Month 50GB

Response:

I’m not so sure about that. This is not, after all, a matter of mere tolerance and multiculturalism, as the West practices it, but a matter of bringing the light of Islam to the jahali kufr (ignorant unbelievers). As a Muslim, it’s your duty not only to educate non-Muslims about Islam’s sublime principles, but also to present it in such a way that would make them want to embrace Islam. After all, Islam is mankind’s "natural religion;" perfect for all people at all times. It’s egalitarian, democratic, and upholds the dignity of women. It has perfected and corrected the corruptions of Christianity and Judaism, but needs no correction or perfection itself, for it is already perfect. What’s not to love, right? Anyhow, here’s a little site for the lurkers. It’s called…. http://www.thetruereligion.org/convertwave.htm ….the true religion, as opposed to all those jahali (ignorant) ones we’ve been exposed to. Lisa

Response:

Christian Evangelicals in Iraq: A Time-Bomb Waiting to Explode

I detest Christian evangelicals, but I have an idea that they are going to win a lot of converts in Iraq.

Response:

For the many who comprehend not the meaning of Evangelicals,…it mean they are evangelising the gospel of Christ. This is their open agenda,as in their name suggest.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Christian Evangelicals in Iraq: A Time-Bomb Waiting to Explode I detest Christian evangelicals, but I have an idea that they are going to win a lot of converts in Iraq.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Christian Evangelicals in Iraq: A Time-Bomb Waiting to Explode Rene L. Gonzalez 01/25/04: (ICH) I’ve always had a big axe to grind with these Christian evangelicals. Ever since being accosted by one fervent follower in the hallways of a building at the University of Massachusetts and pressured to "recognize Jesus as my savior", I’ve had a very big distaste for their kind. These "know it all" pseudo-Christians make me sick, and I’ll tell you why. The British Telegraph newspaper recently featured an article on a supposed "war for souls" being waged by American Christian Evangelicals in Iraq. The article boiled my blood. My first reaction was, "How dare these religious nuts think they know better than Iraqis what their beliefs should be?" I thought the whole thing reflected a very ugly racism and paternalism about other people in the world and their traditions. First of all, they’re deceptive and dishonest about their agenda in Iraq. The following quote describes the nature of this deception. -"Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion."- The humanitarian aid work is the cover for the real agenda (which is converting Muslims to Christianity). The whole concept reveals a lot of racism, paternalism, arrogance, and ignorance. It is racist because it implicitly assumes that these Middle Eastern Arabs are not at the superior spiritual levels of whites (as measured by attaining Christian submission to Jesus Christ and his teachings). It is paternalistic in that the American missionaries, much like the Spanish missionaries that "civilized" the indigenous natives of the Americas, believe that the Iraqi "natives" need to be "saved" from their "false" religion. It is arrogant because the whole concept and agenda is conceived (and hoped to be implemented) within the context of colonial occupation and under a situation of powerlessness on the part of the "natives". I’d bet you these armchair, selective-concepts Christians wouldn’t dare try to preach THEIR version of the Gospel if Iraq could refuse their entrance into their country, society, and culture. They do their preaching when the Iraqis, literally, are "on the ground" and unable to contain who steps on their soil. It is, finally, profoundly ignorant in that it ignores the very advanced nature of Iraqi culture, society, literature, and traditions, and it further ignores the fact that the Islamic religion respects the Bible as one of its own major religious texts, views Jesus as one of the great Muslim prophets, respect Christians as equal "Muslims" (the word means "those that submit", meaning all that submit to the God of Abraham are, by definition, "Muslims"), and essentially worship the same God as the Jews and Christians. As with everything with humanity, the differences in the religions are man made. Some don’t view Jesus as a savior (Jews), some do (Christians), and some view him as one of the great prophets, but not necessarily THE main guy to worship (Muslims). Muslims are adamant that only God himself (no trinity, no Virgin Mary, not even Jesus) is to be glorified. but all worship the same God. But, you couldn’t tell this to one of these fanatical pseudo-Christians. They are so stuck in their own, man-made religious concepts and divisions between the religions to see the inherent linkages between Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, and the universal common concepts of respect, love, and brotherhood that are implicit to these, and most other major religions of the world. Let’s examine some of the ignorance -"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close."- Iraq "open" to the Gospel? Iraq’s been open and practicing the "Gospel" and the other Muslim traditions for thousands of years! While Europe and America were still "heathen" landscapes, the Arab world was a developed, civilized world, with science, mathematics, and, yes, religion (which included Jewish and Christian perspectives of the holy books). What these American religious chauvinists really mean is Iraq being open to THEIR interpretation of the Gospel, complete with all the, frankly speaking, social-baggage bullshit that has been historically tied to American-style Protestant Christianity. In other words, Iraq should go through its own witch-trials, conservative-christian schools that prohibit interracial dating and homosexuality, and the rest of the reactionary (and patently discriminatory) Christian history that this country has undergone. Feels good being "saved", huh? I’m also disgusted by the implications of the second part of his comments. An "open door"? Are these people oblivious to the abusive nature of taking advantage of this "open door" (really a colonial occupation and powerlessness for the Iraqis) for their own religious-ideological agenda? What about what the Iraqis want? Has anyone really thought of them? Obviously, if 97% of Iraq is Muslim (indeed still the cultural capital of the religion), how dare we go in there to impose our cultural history on them? Nothing could be more racist, abusive, and imperial than to view the colonial occupation as an "open door" to "save" the Muslims from their "false" religion. I am profoundly sickened by these religious chauvinists! The article continues to describe how many of the so-called Christian "humanitarian" groups making their way to Iraq are headed by individuals who have made public statements (bordering on racism, if not already there) against Islam. Is this smart? Should we fan the flames of religious and ethnic hatred in Iraq? Do we want to win hearts and minds and stave off a future rise of Muslim anger against perceived Christian crusades against the Islamic world, or do we want to promote such a "clash of civilizations"? For these Christian fundamentalists, that’s the name of the game: crusading for "souls" in the Muslim heartland. And a few loony "Armaggedon" death wishers, hoping that an Arab conflict with Israel will release the ultimate destruction that will bring the second coming of "Christ", are quietly hoping for this clash to occur in the Middle East. To this radical wing belong Christian Zionists like Tom DeLay, Jerry Falwell, and more radical reactionary Christian fundamentalists. We, the normal people, should be VERY watchful of what these individuals and their powerful groups do. They ARE influencing our country’s foreign policies. What makes me the most angry is the attitude of the U.S. government. I am not surprised by their very "hands off, look-the-other-way" approach to Christian fundamentalist missionaries in the cultural capital of Islam, but I’m fearful for its consequences. I’m not surprised because they are a core political constituency of our own unelected and "born-again" Christian President George W. Bush. I’m fearful because I am sure that this will fan the flames of Muslim anger with the United States and with Christians overall. The consequences of that anger will be more 9-11s. -"The US Agency for International Development has said that the government cannot rein in private charities. "Imagine what the US Congress would say to us," said a spokesman in April.-" Bullshit! This government can and has prevented cultural, financial, religious, and political exchanges between countries before (Cuba’s embargo comes to mind). And if the Cuban embargo has proven itself to have been a historical mistake, from financial, political, and cultural perspectives, a similar "embargo" on the part of the U.S. government against Christian missionaries taking advantage of the current colonial occupation in Iraq, would seem to be a very prudent foreign policy. First, we don’t want to further alienate and worsen the already shaky occupation. Second, we don’t want to hamper our legitimate efforts in lessening terrorism and protecting the U.S. territory by giving more fertile ground for Muslim anger against Ch ristian "crusading for souls". The whole concept of Christian missionaries in Iraq goes against the logic of "winning hearts and minds", fighting terrorism (much of it a result of Muslim cultural anger"), and promoting a stable, peaceful, and democratic Middle East. The whole thing is totally illogical. The U.S. government’s stance is totally irresponsible, disrespectful to the wishes and rights of the Iraqi people to their traditions and culture, and amounts to complicit approval of a policy of cultural genocide. Since the U.S. government, the internationally-recognized legal custodians of Iraq at the moment, are unwilling to rein in their own religious loonies, then the U.S. government must be held accountable for the cultural, racial, religious, and other conflicts that WILL arise when the civilizations clash. Cooperation, understanding, and learning from each other cultures is all fine and dandy, but not during the current context of very unequal power relations. It is not fair to the Iraqis for these Christians to abuse the current status of the U.S. armed forces as final arbiters of power in Iraq to, essentially, sneak into Iraq like cockroaches when they couldn’t when a home-grown Iraqi government was in power. The following quote reflects this fear and thought-process on the part of Christian chauvinists in the U.S. -"In Baghdad last month Mr Hanna met two other American missionary teams. One, from Indiana, had shipped in 1.3 million

Response:

Islamic "dawah" is centered around providing infromation, educating, and answering questions. You wouldn’t find me accosting you on the street, or knocking on your door, insisting upon "saving" you from anything. Viqar Ahmed — Usenet Newsgroup Service New Rate! $9.95/Month 50GB

Response:

[To try to convert iraqi people by evangelical christians] It is not a morally right policy. It is racist, arrogant, ignorance, and paternalistic

On the contrary to try to convert eve by force non-muslim people to islam, as muslims are doing since 1400 years, is instead a morally right policy. It isn’t racist, arrogant, ignorance, and paternalistic. Obviously! Logos Remove A B C

Response:

This is odious. I agree. But I’d lie to ask you—what do you make of it when Muslims do their own proselytizing for their faith? Islam is a missionary religion, you know, and it is incumbent upon all Muslims to do "dawa" for Islam. Would you say that Muslim imperialism is better than Christian imperialism? If so, why? Lisa

Response:

While I agree with much of what you say, certainly about the wisdom (or rather lack of it) of Christian groups trying to evangelise Iraq on the coat-tails of an imperialist military occupation, I thin your own prejudice and bigotry has run away with you, and I’m not sure that all the assumptions you make are warranted. You accuse the missionaries of racism, arragance and paternalism. That might well be true, but are your own assumptions not equallly racist, arrogant and paternalist? You object to their thinking that their worldview and philosphy is better than that of others, and yet you assume that your worldview and philosophy are so superior to theirs. For example you say: racism, paternalism, arrogance, and ignorance. It is racist because it implicitly assumes that these Middle Eastern Arabs are not at the superior spiritual levels of whites (as measured by attaining Christian submission to Jesus Christ and his teachings). It is paternalistic in that the American

But that is in itself racist, because it makes the unwarranted assumption that Christians are white. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Let’s examine some of the ignorance -"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close."- Iraq "open" to the Gospel? Iraq’s been open and practicing the "Gospel" and the other Muslim traditions for thousands of years! While Europe and America were still "heathen" landscapes, the Arab world was a developed, civilized world, with science, mathematics, and, yes, religion (which included Jewish and Christian perspectives of the holy books). What these American religious chauvinists really mean is Iraq being open to THEIR interpretation of the Gospel, complete with all the, frankly speaking, social-baggage bullshit that has been historically tied to American-style Protestant Christianity. In other words, Iraq should go through its own witch-trials, conservative-christian schools that prohibit interracial dating and homosexuality, and the rest of the reactionary (and patently discriminatory) Christian history that this country has undergone. Feels good being "saved", huh?

Isn’t that a bit disingenuous? You paper over the real theological differences between Islam and Christianity, and concentrate on the cultural baggage, comparing the best in one with the worst in the other. I’m also disgusted by the implications of the second part of his comments. An "open door"? Are these people oblivious to the abusive nature of taking advantage of this "open door" (really a colonial occupation and powerlessness for the Iraqis) for their own religious-ideological agenda?

Now there I fully agree with you. If Christians are to evangelise in Iraq, the last people who should do it are Americans during an American military occupation. It would lay open any Iraqis who became Christians as a result of their efforts open to the charge of being quislings and traitors to their country, and would tend to tar all Iraqu Christians with the same brush (there have been Christian communities in in Iraq for centuries). — Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail – see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Response:

…and debase others by trying to shove that religon down their throats! replies: Didn’t you know that Evangelicals in Iraq are doing humanitarian efforts,and not trying to shove Christianity down their throats? The Budhhists message are very strong,and it had great publicity again and again in Asia. From places to attractions and from Governmental support to any Business community;from Media to schools,they always are given greater emphasis and support more than Christianity. The Monks traditions are always highlighted enormously and welcome with great pomps and support.The pagans are literally shoveling down the throats of unbelievers of their religion,if it compared with other religion.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was shock to see so many Professors of today not knowing that Christians are evangelising the gospels wherever they go,be it in humanitarian or in Schools or anywhere. Equalliy are blinded were them not believing that Islams,Budhhists,and others are not converting others to their Faith. Islam .. maybe . Bushists – that’s not their style. Only arrogant religions (and religous people) pull that kind of shit … and it is just that …. shit! There are many ways of doing it. While it is an open agendas for evangelical Christians to do humanitarian efforts plus the gospel message,why make it so secretive that Evangelicals are doing it secretly,and having a hidden agendas? USA is a land founded by Christian Fathers,and it would be hypocrite not to follow their footsteps,just because some nuts did not like it. The USA is a land founded by a whole variety of peole, many of who JUST HAPPENED to be christian. They were, and this is more important than their religous beliefs , POLITICAL ACTIVISTS who wanted independence! It is hypicritical to be so arrogant as to assume that you (your relgion) is the pefect and only right religon – and debase others by trying to shove that religon down their throats!

Response:

Islam .. maybe . Bushists – that’s not their style. Only arrogant religions (and religous people) pull that kind of shit … and it is just that …. shit! There are many ways of doing it. While it is an open agendas for evangelical Christians to do humanitarian efforts plus the gospel message,why make it so secretive that Evangelicals are doing it secretly,and having a hidden agendas? USA is a land founded by Christian Fathers,and it would be hypocrite not to follow their footsteps,just because some nuts did not like it.

The USA is a land founded by a whole variety of peole, many of who JUST HAPPENED to be christian. They were, and this is more important than their religous beliefs , POLITICAL ACTIVISTS who wanted independence! It is hypicritical to be so arrogant as to assume that you (your relgion) is the pefect and only right religon – and debase others by trying to shove that religon down their throats!

Response:

Pressuring? He did not talk to anyone who didn’t want to listen. brought the word of god .. that does not mean everyone…..every christian has that same right, duty – or even integrity to do the same. The moct central part of ANY religon is the very personal connection to ONE person and the god of their chosing. To assume the right, power and wisdom to try and tell others what to believe takes nothing but egomaniacal arrogance! Arrogance to assume such an elevated position that takes you off that personal path of being a (sheep) follower – to a self elevated postion of being a shepherd! EVERY ONE of the "evengelists" I have ever seen are NOT worthy of being shepherds – most are not even worthy to shovel sheep shit!

Response:

Rene: If you had been born in first-century Israel, we would have been hearing this: "Why this rabble-rouser is going about Israel, He and his fanatical followers, pressuring people to accept their new religion and new prophet! How dare they! Don’t they realize that 97 percent of the people of Israel believe in Judaism, and are quite happy with it? This chauvinist Judean preacher must be stopped, it is a powder-keg ready to explode. There is a delicate political balance between the Romans and the Jews, and he must not be allowed to upset it!" As a (former) unbeliever, I had the same attitude about those striving to fulfill the Greart Comission. The Apostle Paul had the same attitude, but went even further, and actaully had them rounded up and murdered…but then he found the TRUTH, the One who is the Truth.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Christian Evangelicals in Iraq: A Time-Bomb Waiting to Explode Rene L. Gonzalez 01/25/04: (ICH) I’ve always had a big axe to grind with these Christian evangelicals. Ever since being accosted by one fervent follower in the hallways of a building at the University of Massachusetts and pressured to "recognize Jesus as my savior", I’ve had a very big distaste for their kind. These "know it all" pseudo-Christians make me sick, and I’ll tell you why. The British Telegraph newspaper recently featured an article on a supposed "war for souls" being waged by American Christian Evangelicals in Iraq. The article boiled my blood. My first reaction was, "How dare these religious nuts think they know better than Iraqis what their beliefs should be?" I thought the whole thing reflected a very ugly racism and paternalism about other people in the world and their traditions. First of all, they’re deceptive and dishonest about their agenda in Iraq. The following quote describes the nature of this deception. -"Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion."- The humanitarian aid work is the cover for the real agenda (which is converting Muslims to Christianity). The whole concept reveals a lot of racism, paternalism, arrogance, and ignorance. It is racist because it implicitly assumes that these Middle Eastern Arabs are not at the superior spiritual levels of whites (as measured by attaining Christian submission to Jesus Christ and his teachings). It is paternalistic in that the American missionaries, much like the Spanish missionaries that "civilized" the indigenous natives of the Americas, believe that the Iraqi "natives" need to be "saved" from their "false" religion. It is arrogant because the whole concept and agenda is conceived (and hoped to be implemented) within the context of colonial occupation and under a situation of powerlessness on the part of the "natives". I’d bet you these armchair, selective-concepts Christians wouldn’t dare try to preach THEIR version of the Gospel if Iraq could refuse their entrance into their country, society, and culture. They do their preaching when the Iraqis, literally, are "on the ground" and unable to contain who steps on their soil. It is, finally, profoundly ignorant in that it ignores the very advanced nature of Iraqi culture, society, literature, and traditions, and it further ignores the fact that the Islamic religion respects the Bible as one of its own major religious texts, views Jesus as one of the great Muslim prophets, respect Christians as equal "Muslims" (the word means "those that submit", meaning all that submit to the God of Abraham are, by definition, "Muslims"), and essentially worship the same God as the Jews and Christians. As with everything with humanity, the differences in the religions are man made. Some don’t view Jesus as a savior (Jews), some do (Christians), and some view him as one of the great prophets, but not necessarily THE main guy to worship (Muslims). Muslims are adamant that only God himself (no trinity, no Virgin Mary, not even Jesus) is to be glorified. but all worship the same God. But, you couldn’t tell this to one of these fanatical pseudo-Christians. They are so stuck in their own, man-made religious concepts and divisions between the religions to see the inherent linkages between Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, and the universal common concepts of respect, love, and brotherhood that are implicit to these, and most other major religions of the world. Let’s examine some of the ignorance -"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close."- Iraq "open" to the Gospel? Iraq’s been open and practicing the "Gospel" and the other Muslim traditions for thousands of years! While Europe and America were still "heathen" landscapes, the Arab world was a developed, civilized world, with science, mathematics, and, yes, religion (which included Jewish and Christian perspectives of the holy books). What these American religious chauvinists really mean is Iraq being open to THEIR interpretation of the Gospel, complete with all the, frankly speaking, social-baggage bullshit that has been historically tied to American-style Protestant Christianity. In other words, Iraq should go through its own witch-trials, conservative-christian schools that prohibit interracial dating and homosexuality, and the rest of the reactionary (and patently discriminatory) Christian history that this country has undergone. Feels good being "saved", huh? I’m also disgusted by the implications of the second part of his comments. An "open door"? Are these people oblivious to the abusive nature of taking advantage of this "open door" (really a colonial occupation and powerlessness for the Iraqis) for their own religious-ideological agenda? What about what the Iraqis want? Has anyone really thought of them? Obviously, if 97% of Iraq is Muslim (indeed still the cultural capital of the religion), how dare we go in there to impose our cultural history on them? Nothing could be more racist, abusive, and imperial than to view the colonial occupation as an "open door" to "save" the Muslims from their "false" religion. I am profoundly sickened by these religious chauvinists! The article continues to describe how many of the so-called Christian "humanitarian" groups making their way to Iraq are headed by individuals who have made public statements (bordering on racism, if not already there) against Islam. Is this smart? Should we fan the flames of religious and ethnic hatred in Iraq? Do we want to win hearts and minds and stave off a future rise of Muslim anger against perceived Christian crusades against the Islamic world, or do we want to promote such a "clash of civilizations"? For these Christian fundamentalists, that’s the name of the game: crusading for "souls" in the Muslim heartland. And a few loony "Armaggedon" death wishers, hoping that an Arab conflict with Israel will release the ultimate destruction that will bring the second coming of "Christ", are quietly hoping for this clash to occur in the Middle East. To this radical wing belong Christian Zionists like Tom DeLay, Jerry Falwell, and more radical reactionary Christian fundamentalists. We, the normal people, should be VERY watchful of what these individuals and their powerful groups do. They ARE influencing our country’s foreign policies. What makes me the most angry is the attitude of the U.S. government. I am not surprised by their very "hands off, look-the-other-way" approach to Christian fundamentalist missionaries in the cultural capital of Islam, but I’m fearful for its consequences. I’m not surprised because they are a core political constituency of our own unelected and "born-again" Christian President George W. Bush. I’m fearful because I am sure that this will fan the flames of Muslim anger with the United States and with Christians overall. The consequences of that anger will be more 9-11s. -"The US Agency for International Development has said that the government cannot rein in private charities. "Imagine what the US Congress would say to us," said a spokesman in April.-" Bullshit! This government can and has prevented cultural, financial, religious, and political exchanges between countries before (Cuba’s embargo comes to mind). And if the Cuban embargo has proven itself to have been a historical mistake, from financial, political, and cultural perspectives, a similar "embargo" on the part of the U.S. government against Christian missionaries taking advantage of the current colonial occupation in Iraq, would seem to be a very prudent foreign policy. First, we don’t want to further alienate and worsen the already shaky occupation. Second, we don’t want to hamper our legitimate efforts in lessening terrorism and protecting the U.S. territory by giving more fertile ground for Muslim anger against Ch ristian "crusading for souls". The whole concept of Christian missionaries in Iraq goes against the logic of "winning hearts and minds", fighting terrorism (much of it a result of Muslim cultural anger"), and promoting a stable, peaceful, and democratic Middle East. The whole thing is totally illogical. The U.S. government’s stance is totally irresponsible, disrespectful to the wishes and rights of the Iraqi people to their traditions and culture, and amounts to complicit approval of a policy of cultural genocide. Since the U.S. government, the

internationally-recognized – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – legal custodians of Iraq at the moment, are unwilling to rein

Response:

I was shock to see so many Professors of today not knowing that Christians are evangelising the gospels wherever they go,be it in humanitarian or in Schools or anywhere. Equalliy are blinded were them not believing that Islams,Budhhists,and others are not converting others to their Faith. There are many ways of doing it. While it is an open agendas for evangelical Christians to do humanitarian efforts plus the gospel message,why make it so secretive that Evangelicals are doing it secretly,and having a hidden agendas? USA is a land founded by Christian Fathers,and it would be hypocrite not to follow their footsteps,just because some nuts did not like it.

internationally-recognized – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – legal custodians of Iraq at the moment, are unwilling to rein in their own religious loonies, then the U.S. government must be held accountable for the cultural, racial, religious, and other conflicts that WILL

Response:

Christian Evangelicals in Iraq: A Time-Bomb Waiting to Explode Rene L. Gonzalez 01/25/04: (ICH) I’ve always had a big axe to grind with these Christian evangelicals. Ever since being accosted by one fervent follower in the hallways of a building at the University of Massachusetts and pressured to "recognize Jesus as my savior", I’ve had a very big distaste for their kind. These "know it all" pseudo-Christians make me sick, and I’ll tell you why. The British Telegraph newspaper recently featured an article on a supposed "war for souls" being waged by American Christian Evangelicals in Iraq. The article boiled my blood. My first reaction was, "How dare these religious nuts think they know better than Iraqis what their beliefs should be?" I thought the whole thing reflected a very ugly racism and paternalism about other people in the world and their traditions. First of all, they’re deceptive and dishonest about their agenda in Iraq. The following quote describes the nature of this deception. -"Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion."- The humanitarian aid work is the cover for the real agenda (which is converting Muslims to Christianity). The whole concept reveals a lot of racism, paternalism, arrogance, and ignorance. It is racist because it implicitly assumes that these Middle Eastern Arabs are not at the superior spiritual levels of whites (as measured by attaining Christian submission to Jesus Christ and his teachings). It is paternalistic in that the American missionaries, much like the Spanish missionaries that "civilized" the indigenous natives of the Americas, believe that the Iraqi "natives" need to be "saved" from their "false" religion. It is arrogant because the whole concept and agenda is conceived (and hoped to be implemented) within the context of colonial occupation and under a situation of powerlessness on the part of the "natives". I’d bet you these armchair, selective-concepts Christians wouldn’t dare try to preach THEIR version of the Gospel if Iraq could refuse their entrance into their country, society, and culture. They do their preaching when the Iraqis, literally, are "on the ground" and unable to contain who steps on their soil. It is, finally, profoundly ignorant in that it ignores the very advanced nature of Iraqi culture, society, literature, and traditions, and it further ignores the fact that the Islamic religion respects the Bible as one of its own major religious texts, views Jesus as one of the great Muslim prophets, respect Christians as equal "Muslims" (the word means "those that submit", meaning all that submit to the God of Abraham are, by definition, "Muslims"), and essentially worship the same God as the Jews and Christians. As with everything with humanity, the differences in the religions are man made. Some don’t view Jesus as a savior (Jews), some do (Christians), and some view him as one of the great prophets, but not necessarily THE main guy to worship (Muslims). Muslims are adamant that only God himself (no trinity, no Virgin Mary, not even Jesus) is to be glorified. but all worship the same God. But, you couldn’t tell this to one of these fanatical pseudo-Christians. They are so stuck in their own, man-made religious concepts and divisions between the religions to see the inherent linkages between Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, and the universal common concepts of respect, love, and brotherhood that are implicit to these, and most other major religions of the world. Let’s examine some of the ignorance -"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close."- Iraq "open" to the Gospel? Iraq’s been open and practicing the "Gospel" and the other Muslim traditions for thousands of years! While Europe and America were still "heathen" landscapes, the Arab world was a developed, civilized world, with science, mathematics, and, yes, religion (which included Jewish and Christian perspectives of the holy books). What these American religious chauvinists really mean is Iraq being open to THEIR interpretation of the Gospel, complete with all the, frankly speaking, social-baggage bullshit that has been historically tied to American-style Protestant Christianity. In other words, Iraq should go through its own witch-trials, conservative-christian schools that prohibit interracial dating and homosexuality, and the rest of the reactionary (and patently discriminatory) Christian history that this country has undergone. Feels good being "saved", huh? I’m also disgusted by the implications of the second part of his comments. An "open door"? Are these people oblivious to the abusive nature of taking advantage of this "open door" (really a colonial occupation and powerlessness for the Iraqis) for their own religious-ideological agenda? What about what the Iraqis want? Has anyone really thought of them? Obviously, if 97% of Iraq is Muslim (indeed still the cultural capital of the religion), how dare we go in there to impose our cultural history on them? Nothing could be more racist, abusive, and imperial than to view the colonial occupation as an "open door" to "save" the Muslims from their "false" religion. I am profoundly sickened by these religious chauvinists! The article continues to describe how many of the so-called Christian "humanitarian" groups making their way to Iraq are headed by individuals who have made public statements (bordering on racism, if not already there) against Islam. Is this smart? Should we fan the flames of religious and ethnic hatred in Iraq? Do we want to win hearts and minds and stave off a future rise of Muslim anger against perceived Christian crusades against the Islamic world, or do we want to promote such a "clash of civilizations"? For these Christian fundamentalists, that’s the name of the game: crusading for "souls" in the Muslim heartland. And a few loony "Armaggedon" death wishers, hoping that an Arab conflict with Israel will release the ultimate destruction that will bring the second coming of "Christ", are quietly hoping for this clash to occur in the Middle East. To this radical wing belong Christian Zionists like Tom DeLay, Jerry Falwell, and more radical reactionary Christian fundamentalists. We, the normal people, should be VERY watchful of what these individuals and their powerful groups do. They ARE influencing our country’s foreign policies. What makes me the most angry is the attitude of the U.S. government. I am not surprised by their very "hands off, look-the-other-way" approach to Christian fundamentalist missionaries in the cultural capital of Islam, but I’m fearful for its consequences. I’m not surprised because they are a core political constituency of our own unelected and "born-again" Christian President George W. Bush. I’m fearful because I am sure that this will fan the flames of Muslim anger with the United States and with Christians overall. The consequences of that anger will be more 9-11s. -"The US Agency for International Development has said that the government cannot rein in private charities. "Imagine what the US Congress would say to us," said a spokesman in April.-" Bullshit! This government can and has prevented cultural, financial, religious, and political exchanges between countries before (Cuba’s embargo comes to mind). And if the Cuban embargo has proven itself to have been a historical mistake, from financial, political, and cultural perspectives, a similar "embargo" on the part of the U.S. government against Christian missionaries taking advantage of the current colonial occupation in Iraq, would seem to be a very prudent foreign policy. First, we don’t want to further alienate and worsen the already shaky occupation. Second, we don’t want to hamper our legitimate efforts in lessening terrorism and protecting the U.S. territory by giving more fertile ground for Muslim anger against Ch ristian "crusading for souls". The whole concept of Christian missionaries in Iraq goes against the logic of "winning hearts and minds", fighting terrorism (much of it a result of Muslim cultural anger"), and promoting a stable, peaceful, and democratic Middle East. The whole thing is totally illogical. The U.S. government’s stance is totally irresponsible, disrespectful to the wishes and rights of the Iraqi people to their traditions and culture, and amounts to complicit approval of a policy of cultural genocide. Since the U.S. government, the internationally-recognized legal custodians of Iraq at the moment, are unwilling to rein in their own religious loonies, then the U.S. government must be held accountable for the cultural, racial, religious, and other conflicts that WILL arise when the civilizations clash. Cooperation, understanding, and learning from each other cultures is all fine and dandy, but not during the current context of very unequal power relations. It is not fair to the Iraqis for these Christians to abuse the current status of the U.S. armed forces as final arbiters of power in Iraq to, essentially, sneak into Iraq like cockroaches when they couldn’t when a home-grown Iraqi government was in power. The following quote reflects this fear and thought-process on the part of Christian chauvinists in the U.S. -"In Baghdad last month Mr Hanna met two other American missionary teams. One, from Indiana, had shipped in 1.3 million Christian tracts. "A US passport is all you need to get in, until the new Iraqi government takes over. What we thought was a two-year window, originally, has narrowed down to a six month window," said Mr Hanna, an evangelical minister and editor of Connection Magazine, a Christian newspaper in Ohio."- It’s not assumptions, it’s reality. These Christian … read more »

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