Christianity QA

Question:

young kaaba, please end your hate of Muslims, for it is not right. Your hate of Muslims makes you no better then the "muslim" extemists like the ignorant bin ladin. For he knows nothing about Islam, just as you do not know Islam or Christianity (that is if you actually claim you are a Christian) Hate???  I don’t "hate" muslims… militant muslims… well that’s a different story. HOWEVER… because the militants don’t wear nametags identifying themselves as such, I trust NONE of them. As I said in my original post, when th militants are sucessful, the peaceful oned will revel in the extermination of our culture. What I HATE is what militant islam is trying to do, which is to DOMINATE the world… at the cost of my blood (and yours) As for what bin laden knows? YOU don’t know, what he knows. As for what I KNOW you CERTAINLY don’t know – either about Christianity OR islam – and I have NEVER claimed to be Christian. (But see, UNlike most muslims, I’m not at ALL offended by your inaccurate assumption) What I DO know is the ALL of the monotheist religions have very violent and barbaric PAST histories. What I’ve also learned is that Judaism and Christinity have transcended their pasts and become religions who can actually live amongst each other. Islam has proven itself pathologically UNable to even come close to tolerating ANY other faiths. Your statement is accurate about the ALL being Abrahemic in origination.   If Jews and Christians and Hindus and Buddists can all get along (In the religious sense) Why can’t muslims. And by the way, the PBS special was VERY one-sided and a pathetic use of MY tax-dollars. Peace and happiness to you

Response:

Midwinter: On the other hand, since I live in a country which (at least supposedly) bases its law on the principle of ‘guilty until proven innocent’

Ahem.  A certain irony here.  This should, of course, have read ‘innocent until proven guilty’.  Guess I must have been paying too much attention to the British media, sorry about that. — ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: So explain to me, firstly, what is a secular religion?  And secondly, explain to me how a part of Islam can be benign when the entire crux of your argument is that Islam cannot be benign? I interpret that to be countrues such as Turkey. Which majority islamic, but have a true? democracy. So in other words, the whole culture of Islam is not what you’re making it out to be.  Some of it certainly is, I wouldn’t try to deny that.  But you said all, and now you’re saying something different.

Islam is it itself is maligmant… I invite you to read the koran… there are many different interpretations, so read SEVERAL as to get a "rounded view". Fine!  No problem.  And when the ‘peace-loving’ Christians, Catholic, Protestant, whatever else, have turned over all the militants amongst them, and the cries for crusade (such as this one of yours) have been silenced, then we might say the same. The cries for "crusade" ONLY began after osama sent us his little "gifts" Then explain the Crusades?  Somewhat before Osama’s time, wouldn’t you say?

I think you could do that as well as I. Besides, you name a single ‘Muslim’ in this case.  Does it not tell you something that we are able to list those involved, and that the list is so short?

The images I’ve seen in OUR media (which is VERY liberal) shows hundreds if not  THOUSANDS yelling in the street, burning our flags and effigies of our leaders. I would count EVERY ONE as a terrorist. According to them, WE are the "mighty satan" yet I’ve NEVER seen flag-burnings and effigy burnings here. (other than our people burning our OWN flag and effigies.) … And presumably, every Muslim in the world on board those aircraft. Yes? OF course not.. were that the case we would not be having this little bantering. HOWEVER… every one of the hijackers WERE muslims. Agreed.  But that does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists, now does it?

No… but as far as  know terrorists don’t wear name-tags idenifying themselves as such.  An because of that is the reason I’m saying to be cautious and attentive… Not as far as I can see.  It tells them that defending Islam is their duty. Besides, if the Koran is anything like the Bible, it’s also open to all sorts of abuse from those who have a particular agenda.  Is the Goal of Islam World Conquest? Not as indicated by the verses you quoted.  But, as I say, I am no scholar of the Koran.           The following is a statement by the late Ayatollah Khomeini about the goals of Islam. Hmm.  A well-known moderate…

Indeed… and also the leader of MILLIONS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not going to insult your intellegence Thank you. If you wish… I’d NOT suggest that though. HOWEVER… I WOULD advocate being more watchful… more attentive. Do not assume they are truely "peaceloving" just because they appear to be – for they may be one’s slitting your throat and raping your wife, daughter or mother when the call is put out to begin the islamitization of your country. On the other hand, since I live in a country which (at least supposedly) bases its law on the principle of ‘guilty until proven innocent’, I will not judge them for things they have not yet done, purely because others who claim to share the same faith have felt justified in doing them.  When and if someone attacks me, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or Jedi, or whatever else, then I will defend myself using whatever force is necessary. But I will not pre-empt.  I will not get my retaliation in first.  And I will not treat someone as untrustworthy just because their religion has been abused elsewhere.  I certainly won’t treat them as untrustworthy because you demand it of me.

I demand NOTHING of anyone but myself… I may suggest, NOT demand. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I stand by THAT book. What book is that? The Torah, as well as the Bible. Raised Christian, more closely alligned with Judaism, but have a profound respect for both. And do you feel this puts you in a good position to be objective when dealing with Islam, given the historical conflicts between these three cultures? True, it IS in the Bible to stone adulterers, HOWEVER… being reasonable people, the followers of the Judeo-Christion belief system realized that this is probably NOT the right thing to do. And many Muslims, being reasonable people, also realise this is not the right thing to do.  Yet you conveniently leave them out when it suits you.

Yes, I do here. Reason being, it is STILL practices in MANY islamic countries under sharia. These ‘resonable people’ STILL follow that religion. Believe me (not that I’d expect you to) If either Judaism OR Christianity still practiced such barbary… I’D RUN from it. Turkey is the closest to a democracy, yet still an "islamic" country. So you agree that there is such a thing as moderate Islam, then?

Moderate, yes. Malignant still the same. But I don’t see any Muslims, or anyone else, trying to stop me right now. I pray that that continues. I’m sure it will – unless those who WANT to see war and conflict get their way, through the propagation of constant low-grade misinformation and prejudice.  When that happens and the balloon goes up, as the expression goes, then I will fight to the best of my ability.  But I won’t be fighting for Christianity, or Islam, or paganism, or atheism.  

But I’m afraid that you WILL be fighting against islam… perhaps even your ‘friendly, peace-loving neighbors’. I’ll be fighting for the right of everyone in my country to adhere to whatever belief system they see fit – just as we can now.  And long may THAT state of affairs continue. — ama semper quisquis noces

Peace and happiness to you

Response:

You are a small, weak and narrow minded individual. You are entitled to your opinion, but I suggest you keep it to yourself, since if you ever act upon it your going to end up with a lot of problems in life. Hatred seems endemic to the human race. We’re not happy unless were angry at someone or something. You’ve probably never even met many, if any, muslims. Your parents probably held these views, and you aren’t able to see past it. Your probably just trying also to incite a response so I’ll stop now.

Response:

You’re irrelevant – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are a small, weak and narrow minded individual. You are entitled to your opinion, but I suggest you keep it to yourself, since if you ever act upon it your going to end up with a lot of problems in life. Hatred seems endemic to the human race. We’re not happy unless were angry at someone or something. You’ve probably never even met many, if any, muslims. Your parents probably held these views, and you aren’t able to see past it. Your probably just trying also to incite a response so I’ll stop now.

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: You’re irrelevant

Oh, well done!  Good comeback.  I’m very impressed, I’m sure… Seriously, after the persistent arguments you’ve given us so far, couldn’t you have done better than this? David doesn’t want to ‘feed the troll’.  That’s fair enough.  I prefer to feed them because it gives them more chance to expose what they are – just as you’ve done here. — ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: So explain to me, firstly, what is a secular religion?  And secondly, explain to me how a part of Islam can be benign when the entire crux of your argument is that Islam cannot be benign? I interpret that to be countrues such as Turkey. Which majority islamic, but have a true? democracy.

So in other words, the whole culture of Islam is not what you’re making it out to be.  Some of it certainly is, I wouldn’t try to deny that.  But you said all, and now you’re saying something different. Fine!  No problem.  And when the ‘peace-loving’ Christians, Catholic, Protestant, whatever else, have turned over all the militants amongst them, and the cries for crusade (such as this one of yours) have been silenced, then we might say the same. The cries for "crusade" ONLY began after osama sent us his little "gifts"

Then explain the Crusades?  Somewhat before Osama’s time, wouldn’t you say? Besides, you name a single ‘Muslim’ in this case.  Does it not tell you something that we are able to list those involved, and that the list is so short? … And presumably, every Muslim in the world on board those aircraft. Yes? OF course not.. were that the case we would not be having this little bantering. HOWEVER… every one of the hijackers WERE muslims.

Agreed.  But that does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists, now does it? Not as far as I can see.  It tells them that defending Islam is their duty. Besides, if the Koran is anything like the Bible, it’s also open to all sorts of abuse from those who have a particular agenda.  Is the Goal of Islam World Conquest?

Not as indicated by the verses you quoted.  But, as I say, I am no scholar of the Koran.           The following is a statement by the late Ayatollah Khomeini about the goals of Islam.

Hmm.  A well-known moderate… I’m not going to insult your intellegence

Thank you. If you wish… I’d NOT suggest that though. HOWEVER… I WOULD advocate being more watchful… more attentive. Do not assume they are truely "peaceloving" just because they appear to be – for they may be one’s slitting your throat and raping your wife, daughter or mother when the call is put out to begin the islamitization of your country.

On the other hand, since I live in a country which (at least supposedly) bases its law on the principle of ‘guilty until proven innocent’, I will not judge them for things they have not yet done, purely because others who claim to share the same faith have felt justified in doing them.  When and if someone attacks me, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or Jedi, or whatever else, then I will defend myself using whatever force is necessary. But I will not pre-empt.  I will not get my retaliation in first.  And I will not treat someone as untrustworthy just because their religion has been abused elsewhere.  I certainly won’t treat them as untrustworthy because you demand it of me. And I stand by THAT book. What book is that? The Torah, as well as the Bible. Raised Christian, more closely alligned with Judaism, but have a profound respect for both.

And do you feel this puts you in a good position to be objective when dealing with Islam, given the historical conflicts between these three cultures? True, it IS in the Bible to stone adulterers, HOWEVER… being reasonable people, the followers of the Judeo-Christion belief system realized that this is probably NOT the right thing to do.

And many Muslims, being reasonable people, also realise this is not the right thing to do.  Yet you conveniently leave them out when it suits you. Turkey is the closest to a democracy, yet still an "islamic" country.

So you agree that there is such a thing as moderate Islam, then? But I don’t see any Muslims, or anyone else, trying to stop me right now. I pray that that continues.

I’m sure it will – unless those who WANT to see war and conflict get their way, through the propagation of constant low-grade misinformation and prejudice.  When that happens and the balloon goes up, as the expression goes, then I will fight to the best of my ability.  But I won’t be fighting for Christianity, or Islam, or paganism, or atheism.  I’ll be fighting for the right of everyone in my country to adhere to whatever belief system they see fit – just as we can now.  And long may THAT state of affairs continue. — ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

So explain to me, firstly, what is a secular religion?  

I ASSUME, one such as that in Turkey And secondly, explain to me how a part of Islam can be benign when the entire crux of your argument is that Islam cannot be benign?

I NEVER claimed that ALL muslims are malignant… but like any form of cancer, are worthy of being watched. If you have skin cancer on your foot, you DON’T cut-off your LEG… rather you WATCH! BUT you may have to cut-off the leg to save the body. I didn’t make the chart… However it’s demonsterably true.  Of all of the worlds cultures / religions, NONE are in favorable relations with islam. (20 out of 22) I interpret that to be countrues such as Turkey. Which majority islamic, but have a true? democracy. When the "peace-loving" muslims have turned-over ALL of the militants in their midsts, and the calls for "jihad" have been silenced BY THEM – they will have earned the respect of the rest of the world. Fine!  No problem.  And when the ‘peace-loving’ Christians, Catholic, Protestant, whatever else, have turned over all the militants amongst them,

And of these, WHO (in recent times) has called for the TOTAL exterminaion of the entire populace of who? and the cries for crusade (such as this one of yours) have been silenced, then we might say the same. The cries for "crusade" ONLY began after osama sent us his little "gifts"

peace to you

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger": WE are not trying to destroy their way of life – But if in defending our own theirs is destroyed… so be it – desired NO? acceptable? YES. As far as I can tell, all of the passages you’ve quoted from the Koran, whilst certainly aggressive in their tone, are clearly referring to defence against attacks on Islam.

"5.51":    O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. "8.12":    When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. "62.6":    Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful. "9.5":    So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "33.58":    And those who speak evil things of the believing men and the believing women without their having earned (it), they are guilty indeed of a false accusation and a manifest sin. "33.59":    O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "33.60":    If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while; "33.61":    Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.  That tolerance stops when islam enters the equation. I’ll offer to post here or email a world culture map that diagrams these differences. It does.  The following sentence also stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb: "Militant Islamic culture represents an internal and external threat not only to the United States but also to India, and Russia, and a BENIGN SECULAR ISLAM."  [My emphasis] So explain to me, firstly, what is a secular religion?  And secondly, explain to me how a part of Islam can be benign when the entire crux of your argument is that Islam cannot be benign?

I interpret that to be countrues such as Turkey. Which majority islamic, but have a true? democracy. When the "peace-loving" muslims have turned-over ALL of the militants in their midsts, and the calls for "jihad" have been silenced BY THEM – they will have earned the respect of the rest of the world. Fine!  No problem.  And when the ‘peace-loving’ Christians, Catholic, Protestant, whatever else, have turned over all the militants amongst them, and the cries for crusade (such as this one of yours) have been silenced, then we might say the same.

The cries for "crusade" ONLY began after osama sent us his little "gifts" H  E  L  L  O  !  !  !  ! Hello. 9-11    4  Airliners, 2,500+ souls, 2 MAJOR skyscrapers, The US Pentagon….. … And presumably, every Muslim in the world on board those aircraft.  Yes?

OF course not.. were that the case we would not be having this little bantering. HOWEVER… every one of the hijackers WERE muslims. Possibly not… READ THE kORAN… it tells them it is their duty! Not as far as I can see.  It tells them that defending Islam is their duty. Besides, if the Koran is anything like the Bible, it’s also open to all sorts of abuse from those who have a particular agenda.

 Is the Goal of Islam World Conquest?           The following is a statement by the late Ayatollah Khomeini about the goals of Islam.        Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of other [countries] so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.  But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war.  Those [who say this] are witless.  Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!   Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured [by the unbelievers]?  Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies].  Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us?   Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you!  Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy?  Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword!  People cannot be made obedient except with the sword!  The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight.  Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war?   I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, that’s true.  So that’s okay, is it?  An intention of genocide means a ‘War on…’ is justified, but mere murder and mass murder are okay? Of course not So…? "2.190":    And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you. "2.192":    But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "2.193":    And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors "4.93":    And whoever kills a believer (muslim) intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement. "Attack and kill without mercy if you are attacked.  But leave in peace those who do not oppress or attack you".  That’s what I read.  What do you read? Keep reading… So I call a grown man who desired a 6 year old (consumating at 9) a pedophile and someone is insulted by that??? That alone should be a red-flag. I’m just calling a spade a spade. Oh, certainly.  If that’s the case, then in terms of our society he would indeed be a paedophile and I’d have no objection to anything you wanted to do to him.  But that’s in terms of OUR society – and I live in our society so it’s difficult for me to understand how things worked back then.  In this case, I’ve no desire to understand it.  In any case, that’s not my point. My point is that you’re deliberately using emotive terms to try to stir up hatred.  That’s up to you, as long as you accept that it’s that attitude that keeps the friction alive between our two cultures. Incidentally, for the record, I wasn’t remotely insulted.  The ‘insult’ I mentioned was towards the Muslim culture, and is contained in your screen-name.  Tell me that’s not intended as an insult and this conversation stops here – there would be no point in carrying on.

I’m not going to insult your intellegence I’ll consider their feelings when they STOP their incessant chantings of "death to anything non-muslim". So, let’s once again consider my near neighbours.  I have never yet heard them chant any such thing – they are quite happy to live in a cultural mix, among Christians, atheists, Hindus and at least one pagan.  Do I still have to kill them?

If you wish… I’d NOT suggest that though. HOWEVER… I WOULD advocate being more watchful… more attentive. Do not assume they are truely "peaceloving" just because they appear to be – for they may be one’s slitting your throat and raping your wife, daughter or mother when the call is put out to begin the islamitization of your country. I’m not trying to understand them, all I know is that the koran tells them to kill me (and YOU). They may not want to, but they still stand by that book.  I don’t care if they understand me either, but MY religious writings that I follow tell me that killing is wrong PERIOD. And I stand by THAT book. What book is that?

The Torah, as well as the Bible. Raised Christian, more closely alligned with Judaism, but have a profound respect for both. And ALL I’m saying is for YOU and all others to EDUCATE YOURSELVES. Don’t believe the liberal press and Bush when they say that islam is a religion of peace Bush is a fundamentalist Christian.  I wasn’t aware he HAD said that Islam was a religion of peace.

See Anti-jihad international. There’s a nice article on the front page. http://www.ajna.cjb.net/ Look at sharia system of laws. Look at the number of "honor killings". Is stoning a woman a just punishment for adultery? No.  Do all Muslims believe it is?  Remember, religion-wise, Britain is still a predominantly Christian country (although you wouldn’t believe it to hear the right-wingers talk).  The Bible technically tells its followers to stone adulterers too.  Should we therefore embark on a destructive global war to wipe out Christianity?

True, it IS in the Bible to stone adulterers, HOWEVER… being reasonable people, the followers of the Judeo-Christion belief system … read more »

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger": WE are not trying to destroy their way of life – But if in defending our own theirs is destroyed… so be it – desired NO? acceptable? YES.

As far as I can tell, all of the passages you’ve quoted from the Koran, whilst certainly aggressive in their tone, are clearly referring to defence against attacks on Islam.  That tolerance stops when islam enters the equation. I’ll offer to post here or email a world culture map that diagrams these differences.

It does.  The following sentence also stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb: "Militant Islamic culture represents an internal and external threat not only to the United States but also to India, and Russia, and a BENIGN SECULAR ISLAM."  [My emphasis] So explain to me, firstly, what is a secular religion?  And secondly, explain to me how a part of Islam can be benign when the entire crux of your argument is that Islam cannot be benign? When the "peace-loving" muslims have turned-over ALL of the militants in their midsts, and the calls for "jihad" have been silenced BY THEM – they will have earned the respect of the rest of the world.

Fine!  No problem.  And when the ‘peace-loving’ Christians, Catholic, Protestant, whatever else, have turned over all the militants amongst them, and the cries for crusade (such as this one of yours) have been silenced, then we might say the same. H  E  L  L  O  !  !  !  !

Hello. 9-11    4  Airliners, 2,500+ souls, 2 MAJOR skyscrapers, The US Pentagon…..

… And presumably, every Muslim in the world on board those aircraft.  Yes? Possibly not… READ THE kORAN… it tells them it is their duty!

Not as far as I can see.  It tells them that defending Islam is their duty. Besides, if the Koran is anything like the Bible, it’s also open to all sorts of abuse from those who have a particular agenda. No, that’s true.  So that’s okay, is it?  An intention of genocide means a ‘War on…’ is justified, but mere murder and mass murder are okay? Of course not

So…? "2.190":    And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you. "2.192":    But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "2.193":    And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors "4.93":    And whoever kills a believer (muslim) intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

"Attack and kill without mercy if you are attacked.  But leave in peace those who do not oppress or attack you".  That’s what I read.  What do you read? So I call a grown man who desired a 6 year old (consumating at 9) a pedophile and someone is insulted by that??? That alone should be a red-flag. I’m just calling a spade a spade.

Oh, certainly.  If that’s the case, then in terms of our society he would indeed be a paedophile and I’d have no objection to anything you wanted to do to him.  But that’s in terms of OUR society – and I live in our society so it’s difficult for me to understand how things worked back then.  In this case, I’ve no desire to understand it.  In any case, that’s not my point. My point is that you’re deliberately using emotive terms to try to stir up hatred.  That’s up to you, as long as you accept that it’s that attitude that keeps the friction alive between our two cultures. Incidentally, for the record, I wasn’t remotely insulted.  The ‘insult’ I mentioned was towards the Muslim culture, and is contained in your screen-name.  Tell me that’s not intended as an insult and this conversation stops here – there would be no point in carrying on. I’ll consider their feelings when they STOP their incessant chantings of "death to anything non-muslim".

So, let’s once again consider my near neighbours.  I have never yet heard them chant any such thing – they are quite happy to live in a cultural mix, among Christians, atheists, Hindus and at least one pagan.  Do I still have to kill them? I’m not trying to understand them, all I know is that the koran tells them to kill me (and YOU). They may not want to, but they still stand by that book.  I don’t care if they understand me either, but MY religious writings that I follow tell me that killing is wrong PERIOD. And I stand by THAT book.

What book is that? And ALL I’m saying is for YOU and all others to EDUCATE YOURSELVES. Don’t believe the liberal press and Bush when they say that islam is a religion of peace

Bush is a fundamentalist Christian.  I wasn’t aware he HAD said that Islam was a religion of peace. Look at sharia system of laws. Look at the number of "honor killings". Is stoning a woman a just punishment for adultery?

No.  Do all Muslims believe it is?  Remember, religion-wise, Britain is still a predominantly Christian country (although you wouldn’t believe it to hear the right-wingers talk).  The Bible technically tells its followers to stone adulterers too.  Should we therefore embark on a destructive global war to wipe out Christianity? Have you ever seen an islamic country that is anything more that a dust bowl?   Maybe you don’t mind the idea of that… I DON’T.

What does it matter to you, if you don’t have to live in it?  You have your computer and the Internet – you’re hardly in a position to object because someone ELSE is poor.  If it bothers you that much, get out there and help them.  But you’ll find that many Islamic countries are ‘dust bowls’ because they’re in desert regions, and the ones which suffer poverty are generally in that position because they’ve got a bloke in charge who’s found a neat way of keeping all the nation’s money for his own benefit.  That’s politics – not religion. Turkey being the major exception.

And why is Turkey an exception?  By your argument, the only explanation must be that Turkey isn’t an Islamic state.  Isn’t Egypt an Islamic state, by the way? I’ve heard about the rallies in Britain calling for an islamic state there… seems as though they’re already knocking on your door.

Oh, we have plenty of Muslims.  The difference is, it doesn’t bother me much.  I live by the same rules as they do.  While I’m allowed to practise my own religion in my own way, then I’m happy to let them do the same.  When someone starts trying to take away that freedom, I’ll just do it anyway. And when they actively try to stop me, then I’ll fight to stop them from stopping me.  See? But I don’t see any Muslims, or anyone else, trying to stop me right now. Peace and happiness to you

Thank you, and to you. — ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The poster calling itself "I piss on kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: So what about the young Muslim couple who run a small business not far from me and have never done anyone any harm?  Should I go round to their office and smash it up and shoot them? For my own protection, of course, from these insane, power-hungry terrorists? Of course not. THAT would be stupid. Yes, it would.  But what makes YOU think so?  You said: "And yes, as long islam and the word of the pedophile "prophet" continue to want ME (YOU), MY (YOUR) country and OUR way of life anniliated then yes, I will revel in its demise." Your objection to the Islamic faith earlier was based on this expectation that they would all be delighted to see our culture destroyed.  You then went on to say that you would feel similarly pleased to see the end of theirs.   WE are not trying to destroy their way of life – But if in defending our own theirs is destroyed… so be it – desired NO? acceptable? YES. My other objection to islam is that they recognize no other religion. As you refer in the next paragraph, about cultural indifferences, intolerance breeds intolerance. That’s the way it is. In MODERN society, Jews, Christians, Budists, Hindu are tolerant and accepting of each other. That tolerance stops when islam enters the equation. I’ll offer to post here or email a world culture map that diagrams these differences. You do not make the distinction between the militant Muslims such as the Bin Ladens of the world, and those who simply wish to have the freedom to worship their God in their own way without interference from anyone else.   When the "peace-loving" muslims have turned-over ALL of the militants in their midsts, and the calls for "jihad" have been silenced BY THEM – they will have earned the respect of the rest of the world. In making no distinction, you establish (or at least reinforce) a pattern of reciprocal behaviour.  You don’t care about the differences in their culture, so why should they care about the differences in ours?   And if they don’t care about us, why should we care about them? And so on. It’s easy to let yourself be swayed by what the media want you to believe, but you have to stop being a bobblehat.  The media say ‘War on Terror’ and we think of Muslims.  That’s wrong. No… it’s NOT. It IS a war on muslims… MILITANT muslims. Do you really believe that they (your "peaceful neighbors") would not revel in USA becoming an islamic state? Of course they would. Don’t you think that there are people in the world who would revel in seeing the US (or the UK, which is where I am, incidentally) become a Christian state?  Or a Jewish state?  Or a pagan state?  Everybody’s got their issue, and everyone would like to see everyone else agree with them.  But is that adequate justification for overtly gearing up for a war?   H  E  L  L  O  !  !  !  ! 9-11    4  Airliners, 2,500+ souls, 2 MAJOR skyscrapers, The US Pentagon….. Not every Muslim wants to take over the world – Possibly not… READ THE kORAN… it tells them it is their duty! but the media wants us to see it that way right now because that’s what the US administration want right now, and you’re happy to oblige them.  That’s why the ‘War on Terror’ could so easily become a ‘War on Islam’, just as the militant Muslims claim it already is and always was.  They want an excuse for their terrorism against the West, which is motivated by politics more than religion.  You seem happy to give them that excuse. As far as I know the IRA and the ETA are NOT connected to muslims… but it’s NOT in the credo of the aformentioned groups to kill ALL Jews, Christians and other non-believers. No, that’s true.  So that’s okay, is it?  An intention of genocide means a ‘War on…’ is justified, but mere murder and mass murder are okay? Of course not He’s the point, if they WERE living by the koran, they would be attacking their neighbors… READ!!!   Even in the pedophile’s last speech, he said (paraphasing) ‘Let there be no other religions other than islam.’ Firstly, assume I don’t know the Koran as well as I know the Bible, and oblige me with references.   OK, here’s a few lines for your parusal (sp?) O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray. (Excerpt from final sermon) "2.190":    And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you. "2.191":    And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. "2.192":    But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "2.193":    And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors "4.89":    They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper "4.93":    And whoever kills a believer (muslim) intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement. Secondly, do you not understand that by using terms such as ‘the pedophile’ to describe a figure who is of great significance to an entire culture you are giving them justification to do what you claim they are not justified in doing.   So I call a grown man who desired a 6 year old (consumating at 9) a pedophile and someone is insulted by that??? That alone should be a red-flag. I’m just calling a spade a spade. I agree, such an insult does not warrant the terrorism we see inflicted by the lunatic fanatical extremists, but they will use any tiny excuse.  But what you are going to do is erode the hope that the everyday, ordinary Muslims have that we might be at all prepared to consider their feelings. I’ll consider their feelings when they STOP their incessant chantings of "death to anything non-muslim". Yes, I know the next argument – they want to kill us all therefore they started it and you’re justified in saying what you like.  But the message you’re putting across with such comments, and with that stupid screen-name of yours, is not going to encourage the Muslims (and remember, even amongst the ‘ordinary’ Muslim public they still feel just the same way you do – that Christianity is trying to take over the world) that you’re reasonable, balanced, and willing to sort things out diplomatically. I’m NOT Christian… but I’m NOT insulted by your inference either. I’m not trying to understand them, all I know is that the koran tells them to kill me (and YOU). They may not want to, but they still stand by that book.  I don’t care if they understand me either, but MY religious writings that I follow tell me that killing is wrong PERIOD. And I stand by THAT book.   A contradiction you’d say… the number ONE law of nature, the law of self preservation. And if you convince them that you hate them, as you seem determined to do, then even the moderates (or ‘normal people’) won’t trust you enough to open up enough for a diplomatic solution. What I’m basically saying is that you’re contributing to a vicious circle of hatred and mistrust. And ALL I’m saying is for YOU and all others to EDUCATE YOURSELVES. Don’t believe the liberal press and Bush when they say that islam is a religion of peace – cuz buddy, it AINT. But please, don’t take MY word for it. READ, RESEARCH – from various sources. READ the news for the facts. Look at sharia system of laws. Look at the number of "honor killings". Is stoning a woman a just punishment for adultery?  Have you ever seen an islamic country that is anything more that a dust bowl?   Maybe you don’t mind the idea of that… I DON’T. Tell me about the Great islamic stock exchange… How about the islamic 500, or the islamic index fund??? They don’t exist, know why? Cuz when islam is the law of the land, the economy of that country goes into the TANK. Turkey being the major exception. Oh, then there’s sauda arabia, talk about a modern mecca of peace and freedom. Where the crown prince beheaded his own sister IN PUBLIC for having "premarital relations" GASP !!!! I’ve heard about the rallies in Britain calling for an islamic state there… seems as though they’re already knocking on your door. Of the 22 conflicts across the globe right now, 20 involve muslims. Remember, sometimes the path to peace is the road to war. Peace and happiness to you

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: All we hear is that "islam – the religion of peace", yet around the world 20 out of 22 conflicts involve muslims, lashing out to expand their "state". Britain, Norway, Denmark, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Kasmir, Fatwas are issued to kill Jews, Christians any other non-muslims.

So what about the young Muslim couple who run a small business not far from me and have never done anyone any harm?  Should I go round to their office and smash it up and shoot them?  For my own protection, of course, from these insane, power-hungry terrorists?  I think they’ve recovered enough from the last time they had their property smashed up.  That was just after the WTC attacks, when somebody (presumably thinking along the same simple lines as you) decided that "they’re all the same", and employed some dodgy logic to justify this violence and vandalism to protect "our children" (always drag the kids in, don’t they?) from this terrible insidious threat… Look, I’m not claiming that what some of these people do is right.  I’m just asking you to bear in mind that few cultures can really afford to throw stones from this glass house, and that Islam (even the perverted, self-serving Islam of the world’s Bin Ladens) doesn’t have the monopoly on aggression.  It’s easy to let yourself be swayed by what the media want you to believe, but you have to stop being a bobblehat.  The media say ‘War on Terror’ and we think of Muslims.  That’s wrong.  But it’s what Bush needs if he’s going to win support for his attack on Iraq, so that’s what the media do.  Nobody thinks about the terror that Europe, for example, has been suffering for decades – the IRA, ETA, and so on.  Nothing to do with Muslims.  Like I said, they don’t have any kind of monopoly. As far as I’m concerned, if there’s just one single Muslim anywhere in the world who can live his or her life in accordance with the Koran, and DOESN’T attack his or her neighbours, then we know it’s possible to do it, and that the religion doesn’t necessitate the violence.  Well, I DO know that. Because, far from being one, there are millions.  And if we know THAT, then we know that what we should be fighting isn’t Islam – it’s greed, it’s megalomania, it’s cruelty:  aspects of the human animal which are part of us all, but which most of us take the trouble to control.  But it suits you to go with the media, and what they want you to believe.  That’s fine.  But once Islam is gone, someone will start to use another religion as an excuse for this aggression.  And your rage will find another target.  But it probably still won’t be the right one. — ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The poster calling itself "I piss on kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: So what about the young Muslim couple who run a small business not far from me and have never done anyone any harm?  Should I go round to their office and smash it up and shoot them? For my own protection, of course, from these insane, power-hungry terrorists? Of course not. THAT would be stupid. Yes, it would.  But what makes YOU think so?  You said: "And yes, as long islam and the word of the pedophile "prophet" continue to want ME (YOU), MY (YOUR) country and OUR way of life anniliated then yes, I will revel in its demise." Your objection to the Islamic faith earlier was based on this expectation that they would all be delighted to see our culture destroyed.  You then went on to say that you would feel similarly pleased to see the end of theirs.  

WE are not trying to destroy their way of life – But if in defending our own theirs is destroyed… so be it – desired NO? acceptable? YES. My other objection to islam is that they recognize no other religion. As you refer in the next paragraph, about cultural indifferences, intolerance breeds intolerance. That’s the way it is. In MODERN society, Jews, Christians, Budists, Hindu are tolerant and accepting of each other. That tolerance stops when islam enters the equation. I’ll offer to post here or email a world culture map that diagrams these differences. You do not make the distinction between the militant Muslims such as the Bin Ladens of the world, and those who simply wish to have the freedom to worship their God in their own way without interference from anyone else.  

When the "peace-loving" muslims have turned-over ALL of the militants in their midsts, and the calls for "jihad" have been silenced BY THEM – they will have earned the respect of the rest of the world. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In making no distinction, you establish (or at least reinforce) a pattern of reciprocal behaviour.  You don’t care about the differences in their culture, so why should they care about the differences in ours?   And if they don’t care about us, why should we care about them? And so on. It’s easy to let yourself be swayed by what the media want you to believe, but you have to stop being a bobblehat.  The media say ‘War on Terror’ and we think of Muslims.  That’s wrong. No… it’s NOT. It IS a war on muslims… MILITANT muslims. Do you really believe that they (your "peaceful neighbors") would not revel in USA becoming an islamic state? Of course they would. Don’t you think that there are people in the world who would revel in seeing the US (or the UK, which is where I am, incidentally) become a Christian state?  Or a Jewish state?  Or a pagan state?  Everybody’s got their issue, and everyone would like to see everyone else agree with them.  But is that adequate justification for overtly gearing up for a war?  

H  E  L  L  O  !  !  !  ! 9-11    4  Airliners, 2,500+ souls, 2 MAJOR skyscrapers, The US Pentagon….. Not every Muslim wants to take over the world –

Possibly not… READ THE kORAN… it tells them it is their duty! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but the media wants us to see it that way right now because that’s what the US administration want right now, and you’re happy to oblige them.  That’s why the ‘War on Terror’ could so easily become a ‘War on Islam’, just as the militant Muslims claim it already is and always was.  They want an excuse for their terrorism against the West, which is motivated by politics more than religion.  You seem happy to give them that excuse. As far as I know the IRA and the ETA are NOT connected to muslims… but it’s NOT in the credo of the aformentioned groups to kill ALL Jews, Christians and other non-believers. No, that’s true.  So that’s okay, is it?  An intention of genocide means a ‘War on…’ is justified, but mere murder and mass murder are okay? Of course not He’s the point, if they WERE living by the koran, they would be attacking their neighbors… READ!!!   Even in the pedophile’s last speech, he said (paraphasing) ‘Let there be no other religions other than islam.’ Firstly, assume I don’t know the Koran as well as I know the Bible, and oblige me with references.  

OK, here’s a few lines for your parusal (sp?) O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray. (Excerpt from final sermon) "2.190":    And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you. "2.191":    And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. "2.192":    But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "2.193":    And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors "4.89":    They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper "4.93":    And whoever kills a believer (muslim) intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement. Secondly, do you not understand that by using terms such as ‘the pedophile’ to describe a figure who is of great significance to an entire culture you are giving them justification to do what you claim they are not justified in doing.  

So I call a grown man who desired a 6 year old (consumating at 9) a pedophile and someone is insulted by that??? That alone should be a red-flag. I’m just calling a spade a spade. I agree, such an insult does not warrant the terrorism we see inflicted by the lunatic fanatical extremists, but they will use any tiny excuse.  But what you are going to do is erode the hope that the everyday, ordinary Muslims have that we might be at all prepared to consider their feelings.

I’ll consider their feelings when they STOP their incessant chantings of "death to anything non-muslim". Yes, I know the next argument – they want to kill us all therefore they started it and you’re justified in saying what you like.  But the message you’re putting across with such comments, and with that stupid screen-name of yours, is not going to encourage the Muslims (and remember, even amongst the ‘ordinary’ Muslim public they still feel just the same way you do – that Christianity is trying to take over the world) that you’re reasonable, balanced, and willing to sort things out diplomatically.

I’m NOT Christian… but I’m NOT insulted by your inference either. I’m not trying to understand them, all I know is that the koran tells them to kill me (and YOU). They may not want to, but they still stand by that book.  I don’t care if they understand me either, but MY religious writings that I follow tell me that killing is wrong PERIOD. And I stand by THAT book.   A contradiction you’d say… the number ONE law of nature, the law of self preservation. And if you convince them that you hate them, as you seem determined to do, then even the moderates (or ‘normal people’) won’t trust you enough to open up enough for a diplomatic solution. What I’m basically saying is that you’re contributing to a vicious circle of hatred and mistrust.

And ALL I’m saying is for YOU and all others to EDUCATE YOURSELVES. Don’t believe the liberal press and Bush when they say that islam is a religion of peace – cuz buddy, it AINT. But please, don’t take MY word for it. READ, RESEARCH – from various sources. READ the news for the facts. Look at sharia system of laws. Look at the number of "honor killings". Is stoning a woman a just punishment for adultery?  Have you ever seen an islamic country that is anything more that a dust bowl?   Maybe you don’t mind the idea of that… I DON’T. Tell me about the Great islamic stock exchange… How about the islamic 500, or the islamic index fund??? They don’t exist, know why? Cuz when islam is the law of the land, the economy of that country goes into the TANK. Turkey being the major exception. Oh, then there’s sauda arabia, talk about a modern mecca of peace and freedom. Where the crown prince beheaded his own sister IN PUBLIC for having "premarital relations" GASP !!!! I’ve heard about the rallies in Britain calling for an islamic state there… seems as though they’re already knocking on your door. Of the 22 conflicts across the globe right now, 20 involve muslims. Remember, sometimes the path to peace is the road to war. Peace and happiness to you

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: So what about the young Muslim couple who run a small business not far from me and have never done anyone any harm?  Should I go round to their office and smash it up and shoot them? For my own protection, of course, from these insane, power-hungry terrorists? Of course not. THAT would be stupid.

Yes, it would.  But what makes YOU think so?  You said: "And yes, as long islam and the word of the pedophile "prophet" continue to want ME (YOU), MY (YOUR) country and OUR way of life anniliated then yes, I will revel in its demise." Your objection to the Islamic faith earlier was based on this expectation that they would all be delighted to see our culture destroyed.  You then went on to say that you would feel similarly pleased to see the end of theirs.  You do not make the distinction between the militant Muslims such as the Bin Ladens of the world, and those who simply wish to have the freedom to worship their God in their own way without interference from anyone else.  In making no distinction, you establish (or at least reinforce) a pattern of reciprocal behaviour.  You don’t care about the differences in their culture, so why should they care about the differences in ours?  And if they don’t care about us, why should we care about them? And so on. It’s easy to let yourself be swayed by what the media want you to believe, but you have to stop being a bobblehat.  The media say ‘War on Terror’ and we think of Muslims.  That’s wrong. No… it’s NOT. It IS a war on muslims… MILITANT muslims. Do you really believe that they (your "peaceful neighbors") would not revel in USA becoming an islamic state? Of course they would.

Don’t you think that there are people in the world who would revel in seeing the US (or the UK, which is where I am, incidentally) become a Christian state?  Or a Jewish state?  Or a pagan state?  Everybody’s got their issue, and everyone would like to see everyone else agree with them.  But is that adequate justification for overtly gearing up for a war?  Not every Muslim wants to take over the world – but the media wants us to see it that way right now because that’s what the US administration want right now, and you’re happy to oblige them.  That’s why the ‘War on Terror’ could so easily become a ‘War on Islam’, just as the militant Muslims claim it already is and always was.  They want an excuse for their terrorism against the West, which is motivated by politics more than religion.  You seem happy to give them that excuse. As far as I know the IRA and the ETA are NOT connected to muslims… but it’s NOT in the credo of the aformentioned groups to kill ALL Jews, Christians and other non-believers.

No, that’s true.  So that’s okay, is it?  An intention of genocide means a ‘War on…’ is justified, but mere murder and mass murder are okay? He’s the point, if they WERE living by the koran, they would be attacking their neighbors… READ!!!   Even in the pedophile’s last speech, he said (paraphasing) ‘Let there be no other religions other than islam.’

Firstly, assume I don’t know the Koran as well as I know the Bible, and oblige me with references.  Secondly, do you not understand that by using terms such as ‘the pedophile’ to describe a figure who is of great significance to an entire culture you are giving them justification to do what you claim they are not justified in doing.  I agree, such an insult does not warrant the terrorism we see inflicted by the lunatic fanatical extremists, but they will use any tiny excuse.  But what you are going to do is erode the hope that the everyday, ordinary Muslims have that we might be at all prepared to consider their feelings. Yes, I know the next argument – they want to kill us all therefore they started it and you’re justified in saying what you like.  But the message you’re putting across with such comments, and with that stupid screen-name of yours, is not going to encourage the Muslims (and remember, even amongst the ‘ordinary’ Muslim public they still feel just the same way you do – that Christianity is trying to take over the world) that you’re reasonable, balanced, and willing to sort things out diplomatically. And if you convince them that you hate them, as you seem determined to do, then even the moderates (or ‘normal people’) won’t trust you enough to open up enough for a diplomatic solution. What I’m basically saying is that you’re contributing to a vicious circle of hatred and mistrust. Well, I DO know that. Because, far from being one, there are millions.  And if we know THAT, then we know that what we should be fighting isn’t Islam No, we should be fighting anything that wants to domintate the world leaving in it path piles of corpses.

Militancy.  Fanaticism.  Hatred.  Greed.  Inflexible idealism.  Distrust. These are the real enemies. But once Islam is gone, Then the world be a more peaceful place

No, it won’t.  Because then you’ll find that the problems still exist, that there is still conflict, and then you’ll have to find someone else to use as the scapegoat.  And you will. Think about it, of the 22 conflicts across the globe right now, 20 involve muslims. Remember, sometimes the path to peace is the road to war.

Remember:  If you would have war, prepare for war. — ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: All we hear is that "islam – the religion of peace", yet around the world 20 out of 22 conflicts involve muslims, lashing out to expand their "state". Britain, Norway, Denmark, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Kasmir, Fatwas are issued to kill Jews, Christians any other non-muslims. So what about the young Muslim couple who run a small business not far from me and have never done anyone any harm?  Should I go round to their office and smash it up and shoot them?   For my own protection, of course, from these insane, power-hungry terrorists?  

Of course not. THAT would be stupid. I think they’ve recovered enough from the last time they had their property smashed up.  That was just after the WTC attacks, when somebody (presumably thinking along the same simple lines as you) decided that "they’re all the same", and employed some dodgy logic to justify this violence and vandalism to protect "our children" (always drag the kids in, don’t they?) from this terrible insidious threat… Look, I’m not claiming that what some of these people do is right.  I’m just asking you to bear in mind that few cultures can really afford to throw stones from this glass house, and that Islam (even the perverted, self-serving Islam of the world’s Bin Ladens) doesn’t have the monopoly on aggression.  It’s easy to let yourself be swayed by what the media want you to believe, but you have to stop being a bobblehat.  The media say ‘War on Terror’ and we think of Muslims.  That’s wrong.  

No… it’s NOT. It IS a war on muslims… MILITANT muslims. Do you really believe that they (your "peaceful neighbors") would not revel in USA becoming an islamic state? Of course they would. But it’s what Bush needs if he’s going to win support for his attack on Iraq, so that’s what the media do.  Nobody thinks about the terror that Europe, for example, has been suffering for decades – the IRA, ETA, and so on.  Nothing to do with Muslims.  Like I said, they don’t have any kind of monopoly.

As far as I know the IRA and the ETA are NOT connected to muslims… but it’s NOT in the credo of the aformentioned groups to kill ALL Jews, Christians and other non-believers. As far as I’m concerned, if there’s just one single Muslim anywhere in the world who can live his or her life in accordance with the Koran, and DOESN’T attack his or her neighbours, then we know it’s possible to do it, and that the religion doesn’t necessitate the violence.  

He’s the point, if they WERE living by the koran, they would be attacking their neighbors… READ!!!   Even in the pedophile’s last speech, he said (paraphasing) ‘Let there be no other religions other than islam.’ Well, I DO know that. Because, far from being one, there are millions.  And if we know THAT, then we know that what we should be fighting isn’t Islam

No, we should be fighting anything that wants to domintate the world leaving in it path piles of corpses. – it’s greed, it’s megalomania, it’s cruelty:  aspects of the human animal which are part of us all, but which most of us take the trouble to control.  But it suits you to go with the media, and what they want you to believe.  That’s fine.  But once Islam is gone,

Then the world be a more peaceful place someone will start to use another religion as an excuse for this aggression.  And your rage will find another target.  But it probably still won’t be the right one. — ama semper quisquis noces

Think about it, of the 22 conflicts across the globe right now, 20 involve muslims. Remember, sometimes the path to peace is the road to war.

Response:

When you get your war against Islam, when enough people have died and the Islamic culture is destroyed, will you revel in your victory?

I implore you to read and compare the koran and the US Constitution. islam has NO tolerance for religions other than islam. America, while founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, allows, invites and PROTECTS other and ALL religions. It’s not about Christian vs islam to us. islam wants to kill you AND me. This conflict is islam vs the West. NOT America vs iraq / Islam / saddam. And yes, as long islam and the word of the pedophile "prophet" continue to want ME (YOU), MY (YOUR) country and OUR way of life anniliated then yes, I will revel in its demise. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No?  Then fight because you must, not because you want to.  Posting messages such as this tells us that you want to.

Response:

"I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger"

Um….arent christians, led by their christian leader George W., revving up Bush is a Christian, yes. He is NOT a Christian leader. He IS the American leader.

Which is 75% christian. His core vote is christian. Christians are directly responsible for his actions. It is immaterial that the US is not a theocracy. to kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq….AGAIN! Possibly yes. iraq has consistently REFUSED to be a "good neighbor". He hes BioCHem weapons and WILL use them.

The US hasnt exactly been a "good neighbour" to its neighbours in Central/South America. The US has, and is the only country to have used, nuclear weapons, and it has used chemical weapons against Vietnam. Does this justify a massive attack by the Central American nations on the US? Didnt thousands of muslim civilians get killed by the forces of christianity in Afghanistan, in an effort to drive off a corrupt and evil regime that was put into power by the "christians" themselves? No. The alleged "thousands" were killed by American and Allied Forces. NOT forces of Christianity.

See my first point. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They have more to fear from christians than christians have to fear from them.

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: And yes, as long islam and the word of the pedophile "prophet" continue to want ME (YOU), MY (YOUR) country and OUR way of life anniliated then yes, I will revel in its demise.

So in other words, you are precisely what you object to in that particular brand of Islam you have come to believe represents the entire culture.  You will be pleased to see an entire religion and way of life destroyed, because you believe it is evil and wishes to destroy yours.  No half measures, no compromise, no attempts to build a better understanding between the two. You take it as read that there is no middle ground, no meeting place for ‘us and them’.  You do not try to find any such common ground, you simply leap on the bandwagon of violence and take up the call to arms.  You take pride in ‘pissing’ on them and giving them the finger – you refer to their prophet as a paedophile (well, it’s the trendy ‘no-escape-no-proof-required’ accusation at the moment, isn’t it?  The modern version of "witch!"). You don’t put me in mind of someone who wants to avoid a violent conclusion. Oh, don’t get me wrong – I understand violence, and I know that when it has to be used, when you finally make that decision, then you must go to it with determination and carry it through.  But is this the time to MAKE that decision?  I think you’re a little too keen to start the crusade, personally.  And no doubt you’ll tell me that you’re justified, because of what they’ll do to us if we don’t defend ourselves.  But violence for self-defence should be employed reluctantly, when there are no other options left.  I don’t believe we’ve got to that stage yet.  I also wonder if perhaps, when they see what you’re more than happy to do in the name of ‘defending yourself’, it isn’t natural for them to assume there’s no point trying to talk to us in any case… — ama semper quisquis noces

Response:

All we hear is that "islam – the religion of peace", yet around the world 20 out of 22 conflicts involve muslims, lashing out to expand their "state". Britain, Norway, Denmark, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Kasmir, Fatwas are issued to kill Jews, Christians any other non-muslims. The poster calling itself "I piss on the kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: And yes, as long islam and the word of the pedophile "prophet" continue to want ME (YOU), MY (YOUR) country and OUR way of life anniliated then yes, I will revel in its demise. So in other words, you are precisely what you object to in that particular brand of Islam you have come to believe represents the entire culture.  You will be pleased to see an entire religion and way of life destroyed, because you believe it is evil and wishes to destroy yours.  

Yes No half measures, no compromise, no attempts to build a better understanding between the two.

No You take it as read that there is no middle ground, no meeting place for ‘us and them’.  You do not try to find any such common ground, you simply leap on the bandwagon of violence and take up the call to arms.  You take pride in ‘pissing’ on them and giving them the finger – you refer to their prophet as a paedophile (well, it’s the trendy ‘no-escape-no-proof-required’ accusation at the moment, isn’t it?  The modern version of "witch!").

Read the koran and the hadifa… Kholmeni said it’s OK to enjoy sodomy with an infant !!!! You don’t put me in mind of someone who wants to avoid a violent conclusion. Oh, don’t get me wrong – I understand violence, and I know that when it has to be used, when you finally make that decision, then you must go to it with determination and carry it through.  But is this the time to MAKE that decision?  I think you’re a little too keen to start the crusade, personally.  And no doubt you’ll tell me that you’re justified, because of what they’ll do to us if we don’t defend ourselves.   But violence for self-defence should be employed reluctantly, when there are no other options left.  

Wrong… when a KNOWN killer has blood in his eye and wlking your way – you DO NOT negotiate, you KILL or BE KILLED. I don’t believe we’ve got to that stage yet.  I also wonder if perhaps, when they see what you’re more than happy to do in the name of ‘defending yourself’, it isn’t natural for them to assume there’s no point trying to talk to us in any case…

Educate yourself

Response:

We ALL need to STOP whinning… Jews are NOT better than Christians are NOT better than Hindus are NOT better than Buddists are NOT better than Atheists are NOT better than Animists are NOT better than Zoroastorists !!!!   ISLAM wants us ALL dead and will stop at NOTHING to accomplish it. Some will say, "Not all muslims are violent" or "Not ALL muslims are terrorists." This IS true – HOWEVER those very same non-violent, non-terroristic muslims WILL revel in our defeat… EVERY ONE OF THEM. What we "infidels" and / or "Kafirs" need to do is accept our differences and respect those differences while UNITING and preparing to defend ourselves AND each other so that islam does NOT dominate the world. ** While the KKK are killing the Jew or the Black, the muslim is killing the Hindu, or the Christian. While the Hindu is fighting the Buddist, the muslim is killing the Christian or the Atheist. While the ZA is fighting the Animist, the muslim is killing the Jew or the Buddist. ** See how it works? WE (collectively), none of US want to dominate the world. HOWEVER THEY DO… and they pick no bones about it. And will readily resort to violent means if necessary. WE (collectively) need to put-away OUR differences and look forward. Proving to each other (and ourselves) that WE can transcend OUR differences and unite against a commom enemy… and that enemy is ISLAM. Now get over it.

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ISLAM wants us ALL dead and will stop at NOTHING to accomplish it. Some will say, "Not all muslims are violent" or "Not ALL muslims are terrorists." This IS true – HOWEVER those very same non-violent, non-terroristic muslims WILL revel in our defeat… EVERY ONE OF THEM.

How can people so fucking stupid as you live? — One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have. -Albert Einstein

Response:

We ALL need to STOP whinning… Jews are NOT better than Christians are NOT better than Hindus are NOT better than Buddists are NOT better than Atheists are NOT better than Animists are NOT better than Zoroastorists !!!! ISLAM wants us ALL dead and will stop at NOTHING to accomplish it. Some will say, "Not all muslims are violent" or "Not ALL muslims are terrorists." This IS true – HOWEVER those very same non-violent, non-terroristic muslims WILL revel in our defeat… EVERY ONE OF THEM.

Um….arent christians, led by their christian leader George W., revving up to kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq….AGAIN! Didnt thousands of muslim civilians get killed by the forces of christianity in Afghanistan, in an effort to drive off a corrupt and evil regime that was put into power by the "christians" themselves? They have more to fear from christians than christians have to fear from them.

Response:

The poster calling itself "I piss on kaaba and give mohammed the finger" said: ISLAM wants us ALL dead and will stop at NOTHING to accomplish it. Some will say, "Not all muslims are violent" or "Not ALL muslims are terrorists." This IS true – HOWEVER those very same non-violent, non-terroristic muslims WILL revel in our defeat… EVERY ONE OF THEM.

When you get your war against Islam, when enough people have died and the Islamic culture is destroyed, will you revel in your victory? No?  Then fight because you must, not because you want to.  Posting messages such as this tells us that you want to. — ama semper quisquis noces

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Um….arent christians, led by their christian leader George W., revving up

Bush is a Christian, yes. He is NOT a Christian leader. He IS the American leader. to kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq….AGAIN!

Possibly yes. iraq has consistently REFUSED to be a "good neighbor". He hes BioCHem weapons and WILL use them. Didnt thousands of muslim civilians get killed by the forces of christianity in Afghanistan, in an effort to drive off a corrupt and evil regime that was put into power by the "christians" themselves?

No. The alleged "thousands" were killed by American and Allied Forces. NOT forces of Christianity. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They have more to fear from christians than christians have to fear from them.

Response:

Take your head out of the sand. Read. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ISLAM wants us ALL dead and will stop at NOTHING to accomplish it. Some will say, "Not all muslims are violent" or "Not ALL muslims are terrorists." This IS true – HOWEVER those very same non-violent, non-terroristic muslims WILL revel in our defeat… EVERY ONE OF THEM. How can people so fucking stupid as you live? — One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have. -Albert Einstein

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