Christianity QA » Christian Worship » Shrines to Mary…another eye-sore
Question:
John says we should: worship statues of dead sinners !!!
Where do you come up with these ideas of yours John. I guess misrepresenting each others’ beliefs is fair game according to dear ole John. Boris
Response:
Problem is, the Catholic doesn’t read his Bible. Only Jesus Christ intercedes and only for those He saves.
I find this not true. I read my Bible every day and, without being self righteous, am willing to bet I know it better than you. I wish you to send any of your pre-conceived notions about the Catholic Church to me, since I have not the time to read all of your ludicrous posts. I’ll show them wrong if I must. -Dave
Response:
Problem is, the Catholic doesn’t read his Bible. Only Jesus Christ intercedes and only for those He saves. I find this not true. I read my Bible every day and, without being self righteous, am willing to bet I know it better than you. I wish you to send any of your pre-conceived notions about the Catholic Church to me, since I have not the time to read all of your ludicrous posts. I’ll show them wrong if I must. -Dave
This is another example of people being taught something about Catholics and blindly believing it. Sad, but true. So many non-denominational Christian churches have an essential hate element that is deoendant on a lie. A straw man. Eric
Response:
Greetings, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s normal to see a pile of rocks built to honor the dead Jewish woman…. with a statue that looks more like a Gentile woman than a Jewish woman. The Catholic’s have no part with the Living God so they have to do the next best thing….. worship statues of dead sinners !!! These statues have no eyes…so they can’t see. No ears…..so they can’t hear. No mouths……so they can’t talk…….exactly how the Catholic’s like their theology…Godless !!! They suppose that these statues represent the person of whom the statue depicts. And that these depicted persons have all the attributes the Catholic Bible ascribes to God alone. They hope that these dead people, whom the statue depicts, are indeed in heaven doing the work of Christ and interceding for Catholics. Can’t you just picture it ? Here is a person in heaven pushing Christ out of the way so he instead can tell God to forgive this sinner Catholic. Problem is, the Catholic doesn’t read his Bible. Only Jesus Christ intercedes and only for those He saves. It’s just another occasion for a Catholic to call God a liar.
What may appear on the surface as paganism may be just be a lack of knowledge on the observer. The Romans thought some of the things that the Jews and Christians did as being like their pagan practices. For example: Tacitus, The Histories Book V: They slay the ram, seemingly in derision of Hammon, and they sacrifice the ox, because the Egyptians worship it as Apis. They abstain from swine’s flesh, in consideration of what they suffered when they were infected by the leprosy to which this animal is liable. By their frequent fasts they still bear witness to the long hunger of former days, and the Jewish bread, made without leaven, is retained as a memorial of their hurried seizure of corn. We are told that the rest of the seventh day was adopted, because this day brought with it a termination of their toils; after a while the charm of indolence beguilded them into giving up the seventh year also to inaction. But others say that it is an observance in honour of Saturn, either from the primitive elements of their faith having been transmitted from the Idaei, who are said to have shared the flight of that God, and to have founded the race, or from the circumstance that of the seven stars which rule the destinies of men Saturn moves in the highest orbit and with the mightiest power, and that many of the heavenly bodies complete their revolutions and courses in multiples of seven. Daily Life in the Time of Jesus. Part III – "A People and Its God", Chapter 2 – "The Dwellings of God", Section: "The Temple as Christ Knew It", Pg. 365 para. 1 … As soon as one was within the entrance of the Temple the noise outside died away; the dullest mind felt the nearness of the divine. Next came the great door of the sanctuary, a cedar door covered with gold, with that famous golden vine above it which made the Romans laugh and say that Bacchus was the real god of Israel. … The Christians as the Romans Saw Them Chapter V — Celsus: A Conservative Intellectual Section: Begging Priests of Cybele and Soothsayers, Pg. 96-97, para. 3 In contrast to earlier critics who viewed Christianity from a single perspective, Celsus’s portrait of the Christian movement is rich and varied. At times he draws on popular prejudice toward marginal groups in society; in other places he offers well-informed philosophical criticism based on a serious study of Christian writings and beliefs; elsewhere he draws on stock criticism of philosophical positions drawn from handbooks which circulated among intellectuals. One of his strategies was to compare Christianity to unpopular and arcane religious movements that offended the sensibilities of the Romans. Early in the work, for example, he compares the Christians to the "begging priests of Cybele and soothsayers, and to worshippers of Mithras and Sabazius, and whatever else one might meet, apparitions of Hecate or of some other daemon or daemons" (c. Cels. 1.9). In another place he compares Christian worship to the superstitious practices of the Egyptians and to "those in the Bacchic mysteries who introduce phantoms and terrors" (c. Cels. 3.17, 4.10). These comments, which are reminiscent of Pliny’s, indicate that people still viewed the Christian movement as a foreign cult or superstition. Lucian, a Creek satirist writing about the same time, presents a similar portrait in his tract The Passing of Pegrinus. He speaks of the "wondrous lore of the Christians" that Peregrinus, a second-century charlatan and con-man, had learned by associating with their "priests and scribes in Palestine." The Christians, writes Lucian, "worshipped the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world" (Peregrinus 11). Galen’s notion that Christianity was a philosophical school appears to have been a minority view. Surface appearances can be deceiving. To express the above in another way, consider the following analogy. Two animals are described to you: They lay eggs. They have bills. They live near bodies of water. They both swim in the water and forage in it for food. Are they related? From the above, you cannot be sure; more information is needed.
If the animals are a duck and a swan then they are probably related. If the animals are a duck and a platypus then they are _not_ related. If I’m to to believe that "they are all off-shoots of earlier pagan festivals", I need more information. Are there any historical documents of that time period that support the theory? Did any of the converted pagans, or any other writers of that time, describe any such activity? Here are some other links that deal with the topics addressed above http://www.catholic.com/answers/tracts/paganism.htm http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/11388a.htm Also regarding the topic we should also consider what Karl Keating said regarding the above topic while quoting Newman: Fundamentalists complain that the Church transformed pagan festivals into Christian feasts, and such an association with paganism, they think, is conclusive proof of Rome’s compromising. They quote with relish John Henry Newman’s seemingly damaging admission: We are told in various ways by Eusebius, that Constantine, in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen, transferred to it the outward ornaments to which they had been accustomed in their own. It is not necessary to go into a subject which the diligence of Protestant writers has made familiar to most of us. The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church." Fundamentalists forget that even paganism had some truth mixed in with its error. Christianity took those elements of truth, re- moved erroneous associations so that they ceased to be pagan, and made use of the purified truth the better to express Christian notions. Christianity gave new meanings to old things, and in the process the pagan connections ceased. It was a matter of outright replacement, not compromise. May God lead us to a fuller understanding of His truth and may His peace go with you. Resources: The Christians as the Romans Saw Them Author: Robert L. Wilken Published: Yale University Press – 1984 ISBN 0-300-03627-2 (paperback) ISBN 0-300-03066-5 (hardback) Daily Life in the Time of Jesus Author: Henri Daniel-Rops Published: Servant Books. – 1980 ISBN 0-89283-085-9 Original French version – La Vie Quotidienne en Palestine au Temps de Jesus Published: Librairie Hachette – 1961 DS 112 D233 Catholicism and Fundamentalism Author: Karl Keating Published: Ignatius Press -1988 ISBN 0-89870-177-5 (SB) ISBN 0-89870-195-3 (HB) Tacitus — The Histories http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/histories.html — 1 Peter 3:8-15 [8] Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind. [9] Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing. [10] For "He that would love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile; [11] let him turn away from evil and do right; let him seek peace and pursue it. [12] For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those that do evil." [13] Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is right? [14] But even if you do suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, [15] but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
Response:
It’s normal to see a pile of rocks built to honor the dead Jewish woman…. with a statue that looks more like a Gentile woman than a Jewish woman. The Catholic’s have no part with the Living God so they have to do the next best thing….. worship statues of dead sinners !!! These statues have no eyes…so they can’t see. No ears…..so they can’t hear. No mouths……so they can’t talk…….exactly how the Catholic’s like their theology…Godless !!! They suppose that these statues represent the person of whom the statue depicts. And that these depicted persons have all the attributes the Catholic Bible ascribes to God alone. They hope that these dead people, whom the statue depicts, are indeed in heaven doing the work of Christ and interceding for Catholics. Can’t you just picture it ? Here is a person in heaven pushing Christ out of the way so he instead can tell God to forgive this sinner Catholic. Problem is, the Catholic doesn’t read his Bible. Only Jesus Christ intercedes and only for those He saves. It’s just another occasion for a Catholic to call God a liar.
no comment untill now