Question:
I *like* the idea that the people who looked after him for 2.5 years love him so much they’ll fight for him…even if they’re legally wrong and bound to lose.
It’s wonderful that they love him, but unless they truly believe the bio mother can not parent him successfully, IMO it’s wrong to fight and delay the move till he’s older. It will hurt the child more the longer it’s delayed and could poisen their relationship with the bio-family which would be bad for the child too. Fostering is a very difficult thing I think. I’m not sure I could love and let go as foster families are asked to do. Bonnie
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fact that the child is Black has no bearing in my mind. The idea that Irish people should only adopt Irish kids etc. is racist IMO. Well, I don’t agree with the "Irish" comment either. It obviously doesn’t matter to the foster parents that the child is Black, and the bio mother isn’t fighting this case because of race. Supporters who have a racist agenda aren’t helping the bio mother with their "protests", IMO. Would they support the Black foster mother who recently adopted a White child in a case chronicled here, or not? They’re only mudddying the waters. Bonnie Yeah, custody cases bring out lots of activists. I feel that when something happens like this in the media lots of groups, some nutty, get triggered and want to make a stink. I am sure the Christians are there, too. Lurkin’ _____
Hello Lurkin — not all Christians are bad and one sided. Yes — many of us(me included) fall short — we are human and not perfect. I hope one day you have the pleasure of meeting some of the wonderful — non judgemental Christians who have a true love for people and a genuine desire to help people not put them down. I would hope that all Christians are not judge based solely on my actions. Each day is a new learning experience and hopefully time for new growth. There are days I look back and wish I would have handle a situation better or not said things. Have a nice week.
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Hello Lurkin — not all Christians are bad and one sided. Yes — many of us(me included) fall short — we are human and not perfect. I hope one day you have the pleasure of meeting some of the wonderful — non judgemental Christians who have a true love for people and a genuine desire to help people not put them down. I would hope that all Christians are not judge based solely on my actions. Each day is a new learning experience and hopefully time for new growth. There are days I look back and wish I would have handle a situation better or not said things. Have a nice week.
Autumn, I was being sarcastic about the Christian comment. I have had good and bad experiences with all sorts of person involved in all sorts of religious organizations. I hope you weren’t offended.I do know one thing, however: my adoptive parents used the fact that they were both Christian mnisters to help their leverage when trying to adopt children. In return, I was placed with them and it resulted in pysical and sexual abuse. I wasn’t the only one in my family who experienced this, either. So, you might say that my perception of "christians" are skewed. But I don’t hold my experience against adoptive parents because of it, although I have already been labelled an angry person by some on the NG which is fine with me. Infact, when growing up in a "christian" environment it was quite common to meet many, many other adopted children. It seems to me, based upon this and some other things that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. More sheep for the herd? Lurkin’ _____ Postin’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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The Burkes, who are white, want to adopt Baby T., a 21/2-year-old boy who was placed in their foster care after he was born with cocaine in his system. Tina Olison, the child’s mother, wants him back.
Comments? I’ll bite. The baby legally and clearly belongs with his birth-mom. (I hope she stays clean, for both their sakes, but I suppose in the worst case, he’ll end up with his grandmother.) As clearly, it’s going to be rough on him to make the move. Hope the two sides can get their acts together enough to make the transition as smooth as it can be. This baby has two families fighting over him. He’s luckier than many kids in the world who don’t even have one family. I *like* the idea that the people who looked after him for 2.5 years love him so much they’ll fight for him…even if they’re legally wrong and bound to lose. Rupa
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Lurkin — thanks for your reply back. I’m so very sorry to hear what your parents did to you. It breaks my heart to know any child has had to suffer at the hands of the person who is suppose to be protecting and loving them. Unfortunately — many sick people associate themselves with a certain group and basically don’t uphold the values that are taught. If I was abused by my parents (which fortunately — I have wonderful parents) I probably would be angry myself and strike out here and there. I wish you well! I’m truly sorry for what has happen to you. Take care, ;}
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Thanks, Autumn. The experience has left me cold towards Christianity, not adoption. I appreciate the kind words. Lurkin’ _____ Postin’
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Lurkin — not all Christians are bad and one sided. Yes — many of us(me included) fall short — we are human and not perfect. I hope one day you have the pleasure of meeting some of the wonderful — non judgemental Christians who have a true love for people and a genuine desire to help people not put them down. I would hope that all Christians are not judge based solely on my actions. Each day is a new learning experience and hopefully time for new growth. There are days I look back and wish I would have handle a situation better or not said things. Have a nice week. Autumn, I was being sarcastic about the Christian comment. I have had good and bad experiences with all sorts of person involved in all sorts of religious organizations. I hope you weren’t offended.I do know one thing, however: my adoptive parents used the fact that they were both Christian mnisters to help their leverage when trying to adopt children. In return, I was placed with them and it resulted in pysical and sexual abuse. I wasn’t the only one in my family who experienced this, either. So, you might say that my perception of "christians" are skewed. But I don’t hold my experience against adoptive parents because of it, although I have already been labelled an angry person by some on the NG which is fine with me. Infact, when growing up in a "christian" environment it was quite common to meet many, many other adopted children. It seems to me, based upon this and some other things that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. More sheep for the herd? Lurkin’ _____ Postin’
I agree — "As always with regards" Rocco SEARCHbyfar ~ find and reunite ~ http://www.searchbyfar.com
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Fostering is a very difficult thing I think. I’m not sure I could love and let go as foster families are asked to do.
I agree entirely. I don’t think I could, either — especially since the former foster parents usually have no further contact with the child, I believe. Rupa
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Infact, when growing up in a "christian" environment it was quite common to meet many, many other adopted children. It seems to me, based upon this and some other things that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. More sheep for the herd?
I agree that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. However, the "more sheep for the herd" is loaded with judgment and forces an end to the exploration. That’s a shame because I think this is a topic that bears more consideration. Christianity tends to place an emphasis on at least two parts of the adoption equation: family (i.e. having children) and in service (i.e. opening your home to a child in need). It follows that people who embrace christian values are likely to pursue adoption. Unfortunately, it also follows that many people who adopt will fall short of the mark. However, poor parenting is not part of the christian equation. So, why do people still adopt if they aren’t prepared to parent? Maybe they have a disparity between their outward acceptance of christian values and their internal acceptance. If so, does it matter if it’s intentional or unintentional? Maybe certain groups place a greater emphasis of outward displays of certain values, rather than internal displays. Maybe it is nothing more than a part of the human tendency to take on more than we can handle. Anyone have any other thoughts that will advance this exploration? dck
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Maybe they have a disparity between their outward acceptance of christian values and their internal acceptance. If so, does it matter if it’s intentional or unintentional? Maybe certain groups place a greater emphasis of outward displays of certain values, rather than internal displays. Maybe it is nothing more than a part of the human tendency to take on more than we can handle.
"Keeping up with the Joneses.. that have nothing to do"… Lowell George.. Little Feet. The very core of why I gave my child up was the outward display.. When the late sixties hit.. wow did I tune in and drop out.. Finally I did not have to do the fifties thing.. what I was in my forming years learning.. Finally there was a thing called Kent State.. And human rights were studied there.. and horror happened there.. Society, in my opinion, as a whole said a collective NO.. or my society did.. But the drugs got in the way.. and heck cults.. religious or otherwise got in the way.. And I think what is happening now is a heavy swing back to what humans consider normal.. Fear of the unknown.. so a person goes to a group, with a leader that quotes from the bible..and says.. believe in what I am saying… and all will be well, and all things will be well.. and stop abortion.. And get those mothers and children into the flock.. Indoctrinate them.. at whatever cost .. Jackie C
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Infact, when growing up in a "christian" environment it was quite common to meet many, many other adopted children. It seems to me, based upon this and some other things that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. More sheep for the herd? I agree that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. However, the "more sheep for the herd" is loaded with judgment and forces an end to the exploration. That’s a shame because I think this is a topic that bears more consideration. Christianity tends to place an emphasis on at least two parts of the adoption equation: family (i.e. having children) and in service (i.e. opening your home to a child in need). It follows that people who embrace christian values are likely to pursue adoption. Unfortunately, it also follows that many people who adopt will fall short of the mark. However, poor parenting is not part of the christian equation. So, why do people still adopt if they aren’t prepared to parent? Maybe they have a disparity between their outward acceptance of christian values and their internal acceptance. If so, does it matter if it’s intentional or unintentional? Maybe certain groups place a greater emphasis of outward displays of certain values, rather than internal displays. Maybe it is nothing more than a part of the human tendency to take on more than we can handle. Anyone have any other thoughts that will advance this exploration?
Well, I think the "more sheep for the herd" is off the mark in most cases. The whole idea behind the religious social service agencies that place kids is that they will (hopefully) screen out people who do not share values that you would want your child given. Since this country was founded on the basis of God and country, no matter how much we cry for separation of church and state, it can matter if a Methodist (just an example) minister goes before a Methodist judge in an adoption or custody case. I know a woman who was divorcing her husband and lost custody of the kids because he was before a catholic judge and made her sound like a lunatic for wanting to be a minister. Patti Tweety of Borg: I tawt I attimilated a Puddy Tat!
Response:
<snip I agree that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. However, the "more sheep for the herd" is loaded with judgment and forces an end to the exploration. That’s a shame because I think this is a topic that bears more consideration.
I didn’t read it as judgmental or likely to end exploration. I wondered if the poster might have connections with Mormonism where "more sheep for the herd" has a definite historical precedent. Okay, more consideration … Christianity tends to place an emphasis on at least two parts of the adoption equation: family (i.e. having children) and in service (i.e. opening your home to a child in need). It follows that people who embrace christian values are likely to pursue adoption.
Christ didn’t but some people who pride themselves on their "Christianity" all too often seem in my opinion to distinguish between them (sinners) and the us (on the straight an narrow). Such differentiation can be deadly. I don’t know that I’d agree that "Christian values" are more likely to result in adoption than humanism or any other moral sytem. Is that what you’re saying? Loving one’s fellow man isn’t unique to Christians, imo. Doing good, ditto. Unfortunately, it also follows that many people who adopt will fall short of the mark. However, poor parenting is not part of the christian equation.
This is interesting. Falling short is to be expected. Not striving to be a better parent and a better person is outside the Christian paradigm, I think. Or at least, I was acculturated to believe so. So, why do people still adopt if they aren’t prepared to parent? Maybe they have a disparity between their outward acceptance of christian values and their internal acceptance.
I think you’ve just scored a bullseye … for some people. If so, does it matter if it’s intentional or unintentional?
I hope so. Maybe certain groups place a greater emphasis of outward displays of certain values, rather than internal displays. Maybe it is nothing more than a part of the human tendency to take on more than we can handle.
You’re going in very profound directions here, D. Thanks for the thought-provokers. Anyone have any other thoughts that will advance this exploration?
Can’t wait to see what you come up with next! Neglected to get back to you on the email. The kids going back to school are my grandchildren, 7th grade to first. Such an exciting time … Best wishes. Sue T. A REGDAY event is being planned for Tucson … October 3rd. Are you available?
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I don’t know that I’d agree that "Christian values" are more likely to result in adoption than humanism or any other moral sytem. Is that what you’re saying? Loving one’s fellow man isn’t unique to Christians, imo. Doing good, ditto.
I agree. There is nothing unique about the christian paradigm which encourages good works. However, there may be something about the structure of certain religious groups that influences the behavior of the members. dck
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Is Celesta back or not? deer The Thunder God went for a ride, Upon his favorite filly, "I’m THOR!" he cried, The horse replied, "You forgot your thaddle, thilly!"
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Autumn, I was being sarcastic about the Christian comment. I have had good and bad experiences with all sorts of person involved in all sorts of religious organizations.
Christianity is not a religion, it’s a relationship with Jesus Christ. Anyone making a religion out of Christianity may be talking the talk, but that’s not necessarily walking the walk. You know them by their fruit. Those truly walking after the Spirit should appear to the worldly as very strange or odd, not fitting in to the world. If they are accepted or fit in too much, if they do things like smoke, watch television, engage in any kind of addictive behaviors, etc..whether they are aware of it or not, they are walking after the flesh, that’s a carnal Christian. I hope you weren’t offended.I do know one thing, however: my adoptive parents used the fact that they were both Christian mnisters to help their leverage when trying to adopt children. In return, I was placed with them and it resulted in pysical and sexual abuse. I wasn’t the only one in my family who experienced this, either.
Satan attacks Christian families, for the express purpose of discrediting Christianity. The problem is that not all Christians are aware, or they out of fear don’t want deal with the fact that they are in a spiritual battle or war with Satan, nor are they informed about how to do battle Satan. (A Woman’s Guide to Spiritual Warfare, Quin Sherrer & Ruthanne Garlock, ISBN 0-89283-714-4, $10.00) So many Christians talk the talk, but fail to walk the walk. Christians need to be walking after the Spirit, and no longer after the flesh. Those who continue to walk in the flesh are what is called "carnal Christians". Today we have whole entire churches, including ministers and clergy that are walking carnally. They all, everyone of them need to repent, get right with the Lord and pretty darn quick! For help and in advice in how to walk after the spirit, rather than after the flesh. I would recommend that one get a Victorious Christian 32nd St. C-3, Phoenix, Arizona 85032 (602)482-2366, price is about $15.00. So, you might say that my perception of "christians" are skewed. But I don’t hold my experience against adoptive parents because of it, although I have already been labelled an angry person by some on the NG which is fine with me.
This is Satan’s goal by having caused you and so many others to suffer: to have you blame, curse, or even to altogether reject God, or Christians, or Christianity = which is to reject Jesus Christ. You have to understand who your real enemy is, the one truly to blame for your bad experiences. Satan is your enemy. He still is, but of course he’s probably going to leave you alone NOW, since you have become among one of his victories. Why would he waste any more time on you? He has more fish to fry, he’s off attacking other Christian families and homes…attempting to destroy their lives and families to cause them to curse God just as he accomplished successfully with your family. I don’t know about you, but I am out here seeking to warn as many Christian families as possible that they must be on their guard against this enemy. This is the battle we have before us. Question is, now that I have made you aware of who it is that is to blame for your suffering, are you going to let him get away with it, are you going to let Satan win? Oh sure, he’s gonna let you live in peace for awhile so long as you continue to curse Christians, but ultimately your sentence for selling out to Satan will be living eternally in hell with your enemy who is Satan. If you want to live eternally in heaven you have to make the choice here and now whether to serve Satan or whether to serve Jesus Christ. If your choice is to serve Jesus Christ, you might want to pray the sinners prayer, repent and ask forgiveness. The Lord God Almighty is always ready and waiting to forgive. Go to: http://home.revealed.net/celeste/BornAgain.html Infact, when growing up in a "christian" environment it was quite common to meet many, many other adopted children. It seems to me, based upon this and some other things that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. More sheep for the herd?
There is a correlation between faith in Jesus Christ and adoption. You bet. Through adoption, Jesus Christ seeks to break generational curses by placing the cross between children and prior generations, sometimes adoption is the only way to accomplish that. The Lord sometimes allows for an adoption plan, even though it may not appear that way to us, will provide an opportunity to one day lead a generation of children back to Him. No it doesn’t always work, because even children who are adopted, and their parents are given a FREE choice whether or not to serve the Only True God, Father in Heaven. Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Ro 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Celeste — If a man be intimate with God he will not be intimidated by man. Do not follow the trends. Set the standard. No longer be conformed to the pattern of this world, rather transform the world. — Jeramiah A. Giehl http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeramiahLovesGod/main.html
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Is Celesta back or not?
A very important question, indeed. Jeannette, bmom What if this is as good as it gets? Melvin Udahl (Jack Nicolson in _As Good As it Gets_)
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snip<
Gosh Deer- did you have to call her back??? I blame *you* for asking the important ??? that should be left unasked. Jeannette, bmom What if this is as good as it gets? Melvin Udahl (Jack Nicolson in _As Good As it Gets_)
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(Jrobnett1) writes: Gosh Deer- did you have to call her back??? I blame *you* for asking the important ??? that should be left unasked.
well sheesh..I can’t help it..I had to do it!!! sorry….. deer The Thunder God went for a ride, Upon his favorite filly, "I’m THOR!" he cried, The horse replied, "You forgot your thaddle, thilly!"
Response:
So, Celeste, now you get to decide who is "really" a christian and who isn’t? Based on your "personal relationship" with Jesus? As far as I’m aware, America isn’t a theocracy, YET. Go ahead, judge in your own mind who is and is not christian, but your not him! Your opinions are just that, opinions, no matter what you call them. It’s self righteous bible thumpin’ fundies like you that give christ and the church a justified bad name.You drive more people away from God and church out of disgust with your behavior than your "message of love" will ever convert to your cult of the christ. I’d have never believed that you fundies could turn chritianity into a cult. It’s sad, David Koresh and Jim Jones have taught you well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Autumn, I was being sarcastic about the Christian comment. I have had good and bad experiences with all sorts of person involved in all sorts of religious organizations. Christianity is not a religion, it’s a relationship with Jesus Christ. Anyone making a religion out of Christianity may be talking the talk, but that’s not necessarily walking the walk. You know them by their fruit. Those truly walking after the Spirit should appear to the worldly as very strange or odd, not fitting in to the world. If they are accepted or fit in too much, if they do things like smoke, watch television, engage in any kind of addictive behaviors, etc..whether they are aware of it or not, they are walking after the flesh, that’s a carnal Christian. I hope you weren’t offended.I do know one thing, however: my adoptive parents used the fact that they were both Christian mnisters to help their leverage when trying to adopt children. In return, I was placed with them and it resulted in pysical and sexual abuse. I wasn’t the only one in my family who experienced this, either. Satan attacks Christian families, for the express purpose of discrediting Christianity. The problem is that not all Christians are aware, or they out of fear don’t want deal with the fact that they are in a spiritual battle or war with Satan, nor are they informed about how to do battle Satan. (A Woman’s Guide to Spiritual Warfare, Quin Sherrer & Ruthanne Garlock, ISBN 0-89283-714-4, $10.00) So many Christians talk the talk, but fail to walk the walk. Christians need to be walking after the Spirit, and no longer after the flesh. Those who continue to walk in the flesh are what is called "carnal Christians". Today we have whole entire churches, including ministers and clergy that are walking carnally. They all, everyone of them need to repent, get right with the Lord and pretty darn quick! For help and in advice in how to walk after the spirit, rather than after the flesh. I would recommend that one get a Victorious Christian 32nd St. C-3, Phoenix, Arizona 85032 (602)482-2366, price is about $15.00. So, you might say that my perception of "christians" are skewed. But I don’t hold my experience against adoptive parents because of it, although I have already been labelled an angry person by some on the NG which is fine with me. This is Satan’s goal by having caused you and so many others to suffer: to have you blame, curse, or even to altogether reject God, or Christians, or Christianity = which is to reject Jesus Christ. You have to understand who your real enemy is, the one truly to blame for your bad experiences. Satan is your enemy. He still is, but of course he’s probably going to leave you alone NOW, since you have become among one of his victories. Why would he waste any more time on you? He has more fish to fry, he’s off attacking other Christian families and homes…attempting to destroy their lives and families to cause them to curse God just as he accomplished successfully with your family. I don’t know about you, but I am out here seeking to warn as many Christian families as possible that they must be on their guard against this enemy. This is the battle we have before us. Question is, now that I have made you aware of who it is that is to blame for your suffering, are you going to let him get away with it, are you going to let Satan win? Oh sure, he’s gonna let you live in peace for awhile so long as you continue to curse Christians, but ultimately your sentence for selling out to Satan will be living eternally in hell with your enemy who is Satan. If you want to live eternally in heaven you have to make the choice here and now whether to serve Satan or whether to serve Jesus Christ. If your choice is to serve Jesus Christ, you might want to pray the sinners prayer, repent and ask forgiveness. The Lord God Almighty is always ready and waiting to forgive. Go to: http://home.revealed.net/celeste/BornAgain.html Infact, when growing up in a "christian" environment it was quite common to meet many, many other adopted children. It seems to me, based upon this and some other things that there is a correlation between religion and adoption. More sheep for the herd? There is a correlation between faith in Jesus Christ and adoption. You bet. Through adoption, Jesus Christ seeks to break generational curses by placing the cross between children and prior generations, sometimes adoption is the only way to accomplish that. The Lord sometimes allows for an adoption plan, even though it may not appear that way to us, will provide an opportunity to one day lead a generation of children back to Him. No it doesn’t always work, because even children who are adopted, and their parents are given a FREE choice whether or not to serve the Only True God, Father in Heaven. Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Ro 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Celeste — If a man be intimate with God he will not be intimidated by man. Do not follow the trends. Set the standard. No longer be conformed to the pattern of this world, rather transform the world. — Jeramiah A. Giehl http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeramiahLovesGod/main.html
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It sounds to me like if the birthmother is actually clean, the courts will award her the child and that’s the legally correct thing to do. I have no idea why the foster parents are fighting this case, prob. because they’ve raised this child from babyhood and can’t let go. I’m not sure I could foster and let go, but that’s what foster parents promise to do. It’s possible they don’t believe the birthmother is clean. It would seem they shouldn’t be fighting this case based on what I read in the post. The fact that the child is Black has no bearing in my mind. The idea that Irish people should only adopt Irish kids etc. is racist IMO. It obviously doesn’t matter to the foster parents that the child is Black, and the bio mother isn’t fighting this case because of race. Supporters who have a racist agenda aren’t helping the bio mother with their "protests", IMO. Would they support the Black foster mother who recently adopted a White child in a case chronicled here, or not? They’re only mudddying the waters. Bonnie
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It sounds to me like if the birthmother is actually clean, the courts willaward her the child and that’s the legally correct thing to do.
After 2-1/2 years of custody the foster parents can surely claim that the "best interest of the child" would be that the kid does not change environments. Many have won custody on this alone. I have no idea why the foster parents are fighting this case, prob. because they’ve raised this child from babyhood and can’t let go.
I agree. I’m not sure I could foster and let go, but that’s what foster parents promise to do.
I know a few foster persons who fell in love with some of their children and adopted. It’s possible they don’t believe the birthmother is clean.
Denial. It’s classic. It would seem they shouldn’t be fighting this case based on what I read in the post. The fact that the child is Black has no bearing in my mind. The idea that Irish people should only adopt Irish kids etc. is racist IMO.
Well, I don’t agree with the "Irish" comment either. It obviously doesn’t matter to the foster parents that the child is Black, and the bio mother isn’t fighting this case because of race. Supporters who have a racist agenda aren’t helping the bio mother with their "protests", IMO. Would they support the Black foster mother who recently adopted a White child in a case chronicled here, or not? They’re only mudddying the waters. Bonnie
Yeah, custody cases bring out lots of activists. I feel that when something happens like this in the media lots of groups, some nutty, get triggered and want to make a stink. I am sure the Christians are there, too. Lurkin’ _____ Postin’
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But when Baby T. was born, the grandmother refused to take him, in order to force Olison into a drug rehab program. Olison doesn’t complain about how the Burkes have raised Baby T.
She has to suffer the consequences of her actions.. But I think it very unfair that a time limit has been put on the woman…It takes at least a year to come off of drug addiction… and that first year you are nasty, and bad tempered.. and all that stuff.. The child will be raised in a home where there are no other like himself, in a neighborhood too, that is so very wrong.. Jackie C
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It’s possible they don’t believe the birthmother is clean. Denial. It’s classic.
Like I said in the other letter.. She is never going to be clean.. She will always be an addict.. and it does take a year to clean the crap from the system.. in my opinion. And if I were judged in my first year off of drugs.. Screaming at my children till my ears wrang.. I would have lost them.. Jackie C
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After 2-1/2 years of custody the foster parents can surely claim that the "best interest of the child" would be that the kid does not change environments. Many have won custody on this alone.
I’m not familiar with those cases, but this is a foster care case, not a contested adoption and that matters. I certainly am concerned about the moving of the child, but since this is a foster care case, in all probability the bio mother has a relationship with the child, although prob. not as close as the foster parents. That relationship should help. Foster care is set up to be temporary, unlike adoption. I don’t believe in changing the rules in the middle of the process. If it was this bio-mother’s right under the law to reclaim her child if she cleaned up, she should be able to do so. 2 1/2 years in foster care is prob. too long. I might support earlier termination of her rights unless she was obviously making progress and a plan of return of the child was actively being pursued. Their aren’t enough details in the article to know what was happening during the 2 1/2 years, so I’m basing my comments on her legal rights, almost entirely. Me: I’m not sure I could foster and let go, but that’s what foster parents promise to do.
lurkin: I know a few foster persons who fell in love with some of their children and adopted.
Well that’s what these foster parents want to do. But adoption from foster care isn’t a given, it’s a possibility. The first goal of foster care is family reunification, not adoption. That’s only an option if the former is not–or this is how it’s supposed to work. I feel sorry for the foster parents, but that doesn’t change the legalities involved. Me: It’s possible they don’t believe the birthmother is clean.
lurkin: Denial. It’s classic. Hard to tell from a newspaper article, lurk. Probably, but not absolutely. Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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Tuesday August 11 2:39 AM EDT Race, Politics Hit Custody Battle PAUL A. DRISCOLL Associated Press Writer CHICAGO (AP) – “Give the baby back!” a white motorist yells as he slowly drives past the neighborhood ward office of Alderman Edward Burke. In front of the office, a black minister pushes an empty baby carriage back and forth to symbolize his belief that Burke and his wife are trying to steal a black child. The Burkes, who are white, want to adopt Baby T., a 21/2-year-old boy who was placed in their foster care after he was born with cocaine in his system. Tina Olison, the child’s mother, wants him back. Race isn’t the only thing twisting this case, however. Olison claims that in trying to be reunited with her son, she must overcome not only her own troubled past but also the influence the Burkes wield in Chicago. Anne Burke is an Illinois appeals court judge; her husband is an ex-cop, a lawyer and a powerful political insider, influential in slating Democratic candidates for judgeships. Olison, 36, is a recovered drug addict who has lost all three of her children to the state’s child welfare agency. Now she’s fighting the Cook County State’s Attorney’s effort to permanently end her parental rights. Her case, which goes to trial next month, is being watched by many blacks who consider the Burkes’ custody of Baby T. a cruel irony because the alderman fought bitterly with the city’s first black mayor, Harold Washington. “Ed Burke has never done anything for the African-American community,” said the Rev. Al Sampson, taking a break from his lonely vigil with the baby carriage at Burke’s ward office. “The Burkes should go to Ireland and adopt an Irish kid.” Since shortly after birth, Baby T. has lived in the Burkes’ spacious brick home in a blue-collar neighborhood of mostly whites and Latinos, where there are few blacks, if any. The Burkes, both 54, have four grown children of their own and had another foster child before Baby T. Anne Burke said terms of their foster care license forbid them from discussing any children in their custody. Olison began drinking in junior high, and by the time she graduated from high school she was downing a six-pack of beer and a fifth of hard liquor a day. Next came drugs. Her first two children were raised by their grandmother, where they were placed by the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services. But when Baby T. was born, the grandmother refused to take him, in order to force Olison into a drug rehab program. Olison doesn’t complain about how the Burkes have raised Baby T. “Anne Burke seems like a loving person,” she said. “I’m sure she loves him, but she acts like it’s her child instead of mine.” More to the point, she says, is whether she’s getting a fair chance to prove she can be a good parent. Olison has completed an 18-month drug recovery program, and unannounced tests by the state have shown her clean since. She continued outpatient therapy and now holds two jobs, as a certified nursing assistant and with a catering company. The Department of Children and Family Services officially intended to work toward returning Baby T. to his mother, and Olison’s attorney, Anita Rivkin-Carothers, said Olison has done everything the agency asked her to do. But in July 1997, the Burkes indicated an interest in adopting the child. “That’s when the system stopped working,” Rivkin-Carothers said. “The Cook County Democratic political machine went to work within the juvenile court system” to help the Burkes, she said. Three months after the Burkes expressed their interest in adoption, DCFS changed its goal for Baby T – recommending that the boy stay with his foster parents. The agency said it based its about-face on a report by an independent team of social workers who accused Olison of verbally harassing them when she felt she may lose all rights to her child. One psychologist described her anger as “intense and menacing.” Olison doesn’t deny being angry when she “felt they already had made up their mind. “But I didn’t jump up and slap someone, I didn’t act out.” Rivkin-Carothers, convinced her client had no hope against the Burkes in a Cook County court, appealed to the Illinois Supreme Court. The Supreme Court responded by appointing a judge from Republican Will County to hear the case on Olison’s fitness. When asked about the allegations of political influence, Burke spokesman Donal Quinlan said he would convey the question to Burke, but there was no response from the alderman. Olison and her attorney are not the only ones implying that the Burkes’ power is influencing the case. Patrick Murphy, who as Cook County Public Guardian is the child’s legal protector, said he found the independent social workers’ report on Olison “insubstantial.” He has reversed his support for adoption and arranged for an independent assessment of the mother. DCFS responded by unsuccessfully trying to have Murphy removed from the case. When a top DCFS official wrote him a letter accusing him of negligence, Murphy responded that never in his 30 years in the juvenile justice system had the agency initiated contact with him. He wrote back: “I presume that the letter is in response to pressure placed on you.” Comments, anyone? Lurkin’ _____ Postin’
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