Christianity QA

Question:

My reply: Grace and peace to all who worship Jesus Christ,

and all those who do not you should have added. Despite the safeguard of "ordination" being firmly in place for all these centuries, doctrinal confusion has nevertheless flourished. Notice in the beginning how those that were scattered abroad "went everywhere preaching." They could not but speak the things they had seen and heard. The very promise of Pentecost was that ALL would be witnesses. Much was also recorded in the sacred volume about dealing with and discerning false teachings and teachers. "Ordaining ministers" to serve in a "clergy/laity" relationship was never part of the program, imho. "Ordination" comes down to us in more than twenty Hebrew and Greek words, all steeped in traditions that few question. Its meaning is much broader than is commonly realized, imho.

Right; I grok ordination is not anything more than a legal fiction, but it is a powerful legal fiction that can open doors for you sometimes in places where your good heart and skilled work should be enough to open it. In Acts, elders were appointed (ordained) by the apostles to the task of shepherding and to high personal ethical standards. See also Acts 20. You do not there have men appointed to an "office" of eldership – elders (i.e. older ones) were already present. This is why elders appear without any introduction in the NT.

But since they don’t appear like this in the year 2000, do you have any ideas for the present? Ministry is to be the domain of every believer, without exception!!! Matt. 25:44. Mark 10:44. Minister essentially means servant. Ministry, service.

Yes, just as in the lawbooks, every man is a sworn officer of the state. It just doesn’t work that way outside the books. Perhaps further study needs to be done on this subject. The present form of "ordination" translates into a dangerous and needless road-block to the progress of the gospel.

Perhaps it serves as a goodness by opening our eyes to what truly matters that we should look for in a spiritual leader. A certificate that can be purchased for 30 bucks by responding to a spam e-mail, or something a little deeper? Zeke Anderson Home Church Network    http://homechurch.org

Dave Blue

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brothers and Sisters, It has never been easier to become an ordained minister and to start your calling and ministry in the Christian Faith. We have made it easy for those who are called by God to be ministers to become LEGALLY ordained and start their ministry.  There are a lot of other organizations that claim that they will do the same thing, but we do it as a Christian organization, and we are completely legal! If you have the desire to start your own church or ministry, then we can even issue you a charter for your church to get you started on your way. With our ordainment, you can legally perform ALL standard Christian acts of the Ministry such as —perform weddings —perform baptisms —perform funerals —start your own church (with charter) —ordain others into your own ministry (with charter)

(clipped for brevity sake) My reply: Grace and peace to all who worship Jesus Christ, Despite the safeguard of "ordination" being firmly in place for all these centuries, doctrinal confusion has nevertheless flourished. Notice in the beginning how those that were scattered abroad "went everywhere preaching." They could not but speak the things they had seen and heard. The very promise of Pentecost was that ALL would be witnesses. Much was also recorded in the sacred volume about dealing with and discerning false teachings and teachers. "Ordaining ministers" to serve in a "clergy/laity" relationship was never part of the program, imho. "Ordination" comes down to us in more than twenty Hebrew and Greek words, all steeped in traditions that few question. Its meaning is much broader than is commonly realized, imho. In Acts, elders were appointed (ordained) by the apostles to the task of shepherding and to high personal ethical standards. See also Acts 20. You do not there have men appointed to an "office" of eldership – elders (i.e. older ones) were already present. This is why elders appear without any introduction in the NT. Titus 1:5 [For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain (appoint) elders in every city, as I had appointed thee.] Just as Titus had been appointed to a task, so were the elders appointed to their specific role. In conclusion, elders were appointed to a role – men were not appointed to an "office of elder." There is no such thing as an office of elder. (Though I did once-upon-a-time had a little certificate indicating that I was one at a young age.) The so-called "qualification passages" of the so-called pastoral epistles are but imperatives in the original that are to be understood as requirements – not as conditions. Huge difference. I might command, for example, my 10 year old daughter: "You *must* abstain from alcoholic drinks." None would infer that she would cease to be my daughter if she partook… Did anyone observe that after Peter (chapter 5) reminded the elders to be shepherds, he "likewise" addressed the "younger ones" in the next line? One of many places where the old and young are addressed sise by side in the epistles. Thousands of years of Hebrew tradition (most other nations, too) had already established an elder’s identity. Our ordaining young men to be elders would have been completely unheard in that day. What a self-contradiction! As to the "ordained" deacons of Acts 6, there is no reason to presume that these table-servers were embryonic of an "office of deacon." Many fine scholars have pointed this out. The word "office" was not in the original (Acts or Pastorals), either. Furthermore, these are not referred to as "deacons" in Acts 6. Ministry is to be the domain of every believer, without exception!!! Matt. 25:44. Mark 10:44. Minister essentially means servant. Ministry, service. Jesus, after his *baptism*, entered his public ministry. Interesting sequence of events, no? Marjorie Warkentin concluded her book on ordination – one of the few such books – with the summary that believers needed no other ordination than their baptism. "Ordination, A Biblical-Historical View" by Marjorie Warkentin. Published by W.B. Eerdmans in 1982. Now out of print. And Markus Barth writes:

… The ordination of Jesus Christ to his ministry was his baptism (Mark 1:9-11).  It is possible that the term "one baptism" in 4:5 includes this reminder: all the saints have received the same ordination and made the same pledge to fulfill their share in the ministry entrusted  to the church.  As previously observed, in Gal 3:27 the effect of baptism is described in a way reminiscent of the investiture of a high priest or the inauguration of a Roman official.   The ordination mentioned in I Tim 4:14; 6:12; II Tim 1:6 may well refer to the confession and laying-on-of-hands connected with baptism rather than to an antecedent of a bishop’s consecration.  In short, it is probable that in the NT, baptism included that character and meaning which in later times were attributed to the ordination of special ministers.  Baptism in the biblical sense of the term is ordination for participation in the church’s ministry."   "Ephesians 4-6, A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary" Markus Barth,  pp. 481-482. Perhaps further study needs to be done on this subject. The present form of "ordination" translates into a dangerous and needless road-block to the progress of the gospel. Zeke Anderson Home Church Network    http://homechurch.org

Response:

Might want to check this out with God.  I thought He was the only one that could call you to be His "minister".  Where is your authority to tell me that after I take your course I can perform holy, sacred ordinances in the name of God?  Don’t you need to hold His Priesthood? Where did you get yours? Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brothers and Sisters, It has never been easier to become an ordained minister and to start your calling and ministry in the Christian Faith. We have made it easy for those who are called by God to be ministers to become LEGALLY ordained and start their ministry.  There are a lot of other organizations that claim that they will do the same thing, but we do it as a Christian organization, and we are completely legal! If you have the desire to start your own church or ministry, then we can even issue you a charter for your church to get you started on your way. With our ordainment, you can legally perform ALL standard Christian acts of the Ministry such as —perform weddings —perform baptisms —perform funerals —start your own church (with charter) —ordain others into your own ministry (with charter) Cut yourself free from the job that you have now and answer only to God!!!  This is your chance to be LEGALLY and COMPLETELY free from the fetters of the workaday world of turmoil and despair and finally help people like you want to! If this sounds appealing to you, we offer FREE ordination, via email and mail, completely legal and recorded.  Just visit our website to get it all started… http://holy-covenant.hispeed.com/ We have much to offer you and God is waiting for you to answer His calling.  We do this as a Christian service to those who are sincere about serving in the ministry. Rev. B. Eric Anechiarico, D.D. Pastor/Administrator of Holy Covenant Ministries http://holy-covenant.hispeed.com/

Response:

Brothers and Sisters, It has never been easier to become an ordained minister and to start your calling and ministry in the Christian Faith. We have made it easy for those who are called by God to be ministers to become LEGALLY ordained and start their ministry.  There are a lot of other organizations that claim that they will do the same thing, but we do it as a Christian organization, and we are completely legal! If you have the desire to start your own church or ministry, then we can even issue you a charter for your church to get you started on your way. With our ordainment, you can legally perform ALL standard Christian acts of the Ministry such as —perform weddings —perform baptisms —perform funerals —start your own church (with charter) —ordain others into your own ministry (with charter) Cut yourself free from the job that you have now and answer only to God!!!  This is your chance to be LEGALLY and COMPLETELY free from the fetters of the workaday world of turmoil and despair and finally help people like you want to! If this sounds appealing to you, we offer FREE ordination, via email and mail, completely legal and recorded.  Just visit our website to get it all started… http://holy-covenant.hispeed.com/ We have much to offer you and God is waiting for you to answer His calling.  We do this as a Christian service to those who are sincere about serving in the ministry. Rev. B. Eric Anechiarico, D.D. Pastor/Administrator of Holy Covenant Ministries http://holy-covenant.hispeed.com/

Response:

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