Christianity QA

Question:

Oops, sorry, I sent the last post early by mistake  :) April, whenever I really get frustrated I try to turn the other cheek, not out of some religious feeling or sense of virtue, but just because I feel deep inside that (perhaps contrary to what we see everyday) there really is some balance in life, some degree of fairness, even some justice.  I have to believe that to get by. You know that it’s more painful to engage BM than to let her crap go, and I’m sure it pisses her off more when you ignore her than when you let her involve you in more of her manipulative stunts. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jennifer wrote: > April, > The only way I’ve survived is by believing what you wrote, that "what goes > around, comes around."  Whenever I > April Tarvas wrote: > > well, Kitley….I am totally with you!!!!!!! I just dont understand why we > > (as sm’s) are supposed to be so caring and considerate of a woman,whom, it > > seems, in 98% of the cases here, has only caused us, their ex-husbands, and > > children nothing but pain, frustration, and financial burdens. I get SO > > tired of everyone telling me to just ignore BM, to "Not stoop to her > > level"….The comment has been made that bm’s are human and have feelings > > too. Okay, I am not disputing that. But why on earth must they continue to > > be so spiteful and cruel long after the fact? I have tried SO hard to be > > nice to this woman….many times have went miles out of my way to cater to > > her wants and needs, but it has brought me nothing but grief. She ends up > > turning my words around, accuses me of all sorts of horrible things, and > > attempts to turn the kids against me. I refuse now, to have anything to do > > with her….if she wants to discuss anything pertaining the kids, she can go > > through my husband, cuz after all, they are HER kids(which she just loves to > > remind me…like I would ever want to take credit for them….esp SD, who is > > a miniature version of mommy in every way). I have been told by others that > > she probably wishes she would have done things different, and is jealous of > > me for having the relationship with her kids and my husband that she wishes > > she had…..well, I say she HAD her chance…that she’s the one who chose to > > walk out on him and the kids when they were just babies…and this was over > > 6 years ago already….she’s remarried with another child now….she only > > stays in her first two kids’ lives to be a major pain in the ass to me. The > > only time she has any contact with the kids at all is when they are there > > for summer or vacations….otherwise they dont get so much as a post card. > > She says she loves the kids and wants what;s in their best interest….well, > > brainwashing your children into thinking you walk on water and constantly > > putting down their father and sm arent exactly the most loving, selfless > > acts. Not to mention bringing them to drug parties….leaving them home > > alone, "forgetting" to feed them, and slapping them "because they didnt come > > in fast enough when I called"……she once told me she wishes Clyde and I > > would leave her alone and get on with our lives….I had to laugh at that. > > We would like nothing better for her to disappear off the face of the earth, > > and let these kids have a chance at a normal, stable life. But I guess > > that’s all in a story for another time. > > Basically, I just think that when BM’s start acting like real human beings, > > only then can they deserve to be treated as such. They should all take a > > step back and examine thier own lives…..maybe they will see that no, the > > whole world is not out to get them….that they have made their own beds, > > and it’s time to lie in them. Maybe if they would treat us with the respect > > we deserve, things would be different. But why should we be nice to someone > > who treats us and our family this way? You know we wouldn’t put up with it > > from anyone else…..!!! Sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is > > knowing that eventually, Bm is going to get what she deserves…….like > > they say, what goes around comes around!  (I’ll be the one in the front row > > doing the happy dance.) > > Newsgroups <kitl…@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:rr8p16jokrl22@corp.supernews.com… > > > at the result of  pissing everyone off……i think kim was just making an > > > angry comment.  it comes as a level > > > of frustration.  i mean, hey, even i’ve made the comment "if she was on > > fire > > > i wouldn’t  piss on her to put it out." > > > i mean, really, being human, i’d be glad to piss on her.  i’m right with > > ya, > > > kim. > > > kitley (who probably is going to get flamed) > > > Cindy Martin <imaf…@swbell.net> wrote in message > > > news:y7Ls3.364$DI3.38575@typhoon01.swbell.net… > > > > >Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message > > > > >news:19990812173148.11073.00000175@ng-cs1.aol.com… > > > > >> >But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat > > > her > > > > >> >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. > > She’s > > > a > > > > >> >human being. > > > > Geri, > > > > I know you have problems with the ex, but consider this — if you get > > > beaten > > > > by your SO you have no control over your life.  You have to constantly > > > watch > > > > what you do and say because you never know what’s going to set them off > > > > next.  An innocent remark can get you flying into a wall or a black eye. > > > > I’m sorry, but NOBODY deserves to be beaten or hit.  There is no reason > > in > > > > this world for that to happen. > > > > Pray to God you never know the terror, fear, and instability in your > > life > > > > when your SO is so controlling and unstable.  I hope you never know what > > > > it’s like to have to watch everything you say.  You will probably never > > be > > > > on the receiving end of this behavior and good for you.  But, those who > > > are > > > > lose a lot of self esteem, pride, and the control of their life. > > > > And, yes, I’ve been there, done that.  There’s no responsibility on the > > > > other part.  It’s never THEIR fault, it’s always yours.  I’ve lost count > > > of > > > > the times I’ve heard if I didn’t make him so mad, he wouldn’t…. > > > > It’s not fair when you lose control of your life and maybe the ex feels > > > that > > > > with her daughter she’s losing control again.

Response:

April, The only way I’ve survived is by believing what you wrote, that "what goes around, comes around."  Whenever I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -April Tarvas wrote: > well, Kitley….I am totally with you!!!!!!! I just dont understand why we > (as sm’s) are supposed to be so caring and considerate of a woman,whom, it > seems, in 98% of the cases here, has only caused us, their ex-husbands, and > children nothing but pain, frustration, and financial burdens. I get SO > tired of everyone telling me to just ignore BM, to "Not stoop to her > level"….The comment has been made that bm’s are human and have feelings > too. Okay, I am not disputing that. But why on earth must they continue to > be so spiteful and cruel long after the fact? I have tried SO hard to be > nice to this woman….many times have went miles out of my way to cater to > her wants and needs, but it has brought me nothing but grief. She ends up > turning my words around, accuses me of all sorts of horrible things, and > attempts to turn the kids against me. I refuse now, to have anything to do > with her….if she wants to discuss anything pertaining the kids, she can go > through my husband, cuz after all, they are HER kids(which she just loves to > remind me…like I would ever want to take credit for them….esp SD, who is > a miniature version of mommy in every way). I have been told by others that > she probably wishes she would have done things different, and is jealous of > me for having the relationship with her kids and my husband that she wishes > she had…..well, I say she HAD her chance…that she’s the one who chose to > walk out on him and the kids when they were just babies…and this was over > 6 years ago already….she’s remarried with another child now….she only > stays in her first two kids’ lives to be a major pain in the ass to me. The > only time she has any contact with the kids at all is when they are there > for summer or vacations….otherwise they dont get so much as a post card. > She says she loves the kids and wants what;s in their best interest….well, > brainwashing your children into thinking you walk on water and constantly > putting down their father and sm arent exactly the most loving, selfless > acts. Not to mention bringing them to drug parties….leaving them home > alone, "forgetting" to feed them, and slapping them "because they didnt come > in fast enough when I called"……she once told me she wishes Clyde and I > would leave her alone and get on with our lives….I had to laugh at that. > We would like nothing better for her to disappear off the face of the earth, > and let these kids have a chance at a normal, stable life. But I guess > that’s all in a story for another time. > Basically, I just think that when BM’s start acting like real human beings, > only then can they deserve to be treated as such. They should all take a > step back and examine thier own lives…..maybe they will see that no, the > whole world is not out to get them….that they have made their own beds, > and it’s time to lie in them. Maybe if they would treat us with the respect > we deserve, things would be different. But why should we be nice to someone > who treats us and our family this way? You know we wouldn’t put up with it > from anyone else…..!!! Sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is > knowing that eventually, Bm is going to get what she deserves…….like > they say, what goes around comes around!  (I’ll be the one in the front row > doing the happy dance.) > Newsgroups <kitl…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:rr8p16jokrl22@corp.supernews.com… > > at the result of  pissing everyone off……i think kim was just making an > > angry comment.  it comes as a level > > of frustration.  i mean, hey, even i’ve made the comment "if she was on > fire > > i wouldn’t  piss on her to put it out." > > i mean, really, being human, i’d be glad to piss on her.  i’m right with > ya, > > kim. > > kitley (who probably is going to get flamed) > > Cindy Martin <imaf…@swbell.net> wrote in message > > news:y7Ls3.364$DI3.38575@typhoon01.swbell.net… > > > >Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message > > > >news:19990812173148.11073.00000175@ng-cs1.aol.com… > > > >> >But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat > > her > > > >> >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. > She’s > > a > > > >> >human being. > > > Geri, > > > I know you have problems with the ex, but consider this — if you get > > beaten > > > by your SO you have no control over your life.  You have to constantly > > watch > > > what you do and say because you never know what’s going to set them off > > > next.  An innocent remark can get you flying into a wall or a black eye. > > > I’m sorry, but NOBODY deserves to be beaten or hit.  There is no reason > in > > > this world for that to happen. > > > Pray to God you never know the terror, fear, and instability in your > life > > > when your SO is so controlling and unstable.  I hope you never know what > > > it’s like to have to watch everything you say.  You will probably never > be > > > on the receiving end of this behavior and good for you.  But, those who > > are > > > lose a lot of self esteem, pride, and the control of their life. > > > And, yes, I’ve been there, done that.  There’s no responsibility on the > > > other part.  It’s never THEIR fault, it’s always yours.  I’ve lost count > > of > > > the times I’ve heard if I didn’t make him so mad, he wouldn’t…. > > > It’s not fair when you lose control of your life and maybe the ex feels > > that > > > with her daughter she’s losing control again.

Response:

Actually, what they should do is take her to court to recoup the legal fees that she vindictively caused. Lori Merrie <mer…@svn.net> wrote in message

news:SsOs3.1859$Sg.102762@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net… > Gp lenexa wrote in message

<19990812124041.13271.00000…@ng-cd1.aol.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Merrie, I swear to God, if you witnessed BM murdering her child in cold > blood, > >you would probably still find a way to defend her. >     No – I’d tell her to stop but she can’t hear me.  Where as, you – the > person slapping a bullseye and holding up your SD for target practice can. >     What do you expect BM’s reaction to your desire to void the agreement > will be?  Think she’ll slap her head and say "doh" and then smile and > think -"gee, I should have left things the way they were – that’ll teach > me."  Or do you think if you ask her to pay half, then she’ll claim she > can’t and try to put her daughter back into the less expensive situation > just for spite.  Do you think because she likes the current daycare > situation she’ll just shrug her shoulders and think it’s best for SD so > she’ll just eat the loss?  Not if she’s the way you have described her. Do > you think a judge will insist that she keep her part of the agreement if you > don’t keep yours? >     You are the ones not wanting to keep your part of the agreement. >     This alteration to the attorney signature space is not relevant to the > agreement itself.  If you want to pursue that it’s a different issue. > *Verbal* agreements are supposed to be binding. >     Ask yourself,  what will BM’s reaction be and what are the consequences > for my SD. > That’s all. > Merrie > >You know, anyone who knows me in person knows I very rarely get angry or > stress > >out, I let a LOT just slide by, and I am non-violent and pretty > >non-confrontational.  But I can tell you that the year I have had of > dealing > >with this woman has made me understand how her last husband could beat the > tar > >out of her. (Too bad he didn’t do a better job of it.)  I have no doubt she > >deserved everything she got.  I would challenge anyone to have to deal with > her > >for six months and not want to just slap her tits (sorry to be crude) > together > >but good!  I have never met a person who has made me think more > un-Christian > >thoughts in my whole entire life, and believe me, that doesn’t make me > happy. > >Geri

Response:

at the result of  pissing everyone off……i think kim was just making an angry comment.  it comes as a level of frustration.  i mean, hey, even i’ve made the comment "if she was on fire i wouldn’t  piss on her to put it out." i mean, really, being human, i’d be glad to piss on her.  i’m right with ya, kim. kitley (who probably is going to get flamed) Cindy Martin <imaf…@swbell.net> wrote in message

news:y7Ls3.364$DI3.38575@typhoon01.swbell.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message > >news:19990812173148.11073.00000175@ng-cs1.aol.com… > >> >But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat her > >> >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. She’s a > >> >human being. > Geri, > I know you have problems with the ex, but consider this — if you get beaten > by your SO you have no control over your life.  You have to constantly watch > what you do and say because you never know what’s going to set them off > next.  An innocent remark can get you flying into a wall or a black eye. > I’m sorry, but NOBODY deserves to be beaten or hit.  There is no reason in > this world for that to happen. > Pray to God you never know the terror, fear, and instability in your life > when your SO is so controlling and unstable.  I hope you never know what > it’s like to have to watch everything you say.  You will probably never be > on the receiving end of this behavior and good for you.  But, those who are > lose a lot of self esteem, pride, and the control of their life. > And, yes, I’ve been there, done that.  There’s no responsibility on the > other part.  It’s never THEIR fault, it’s always yours.  I’ve lost count of > the times I’ve heard if I didn’t make him so mad, he wouldn’t…. > It’s not fair when you lose control of your life and maybe the ex feels that > with her daughter she’s losing control again.

Response:

Denise wrote in message <7ovmji$c…@autumn.news.rcn.net>… >Hey Geri, you are not terrible!  Instead of wasting all of your energy >hating this person, say a little prayer for her.  I do that when things get >bad with BM and sometimes it works.  People like her need all the help they >can get.  It will make you feel better too:) >Denise

You know if you say it w/ your step-kids you get brownie points too. Heather (who understands just how you feel) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message >news:19990812173148.11073.00000175@ng-cs1.aol.com… >> >But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat her >> >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. She’s a >> >human being. >> BTW, Kim – up until I knew this women and had personal dealings with her >(I >> didn’t write the really bad stuff she has tried to do to me personally, >because >> I know it is probably jealousy motivated.) I would have absolutely agreed >with >> you on this point.  I absolutely don’t believe in violence or anything to >do >> with it.  With the dealings we have had with this person the last couple >of >> weeks, however, any shred of any kind of compassion I could have even >remotely >> even faked for her has vanished.  I suppose that will get me a lot of >flames, >> but I can’t think of anything bad enough to wish on her, and I hate the >idea >> that there is someone who has provoked me into feeling this harsh. >> Geri

Response:

>What do you expect BM’s reaction to your desire to void the agreement >will be?  Think she’ll slap her head and say "doh" and then smile and >think -"gee, I should have left things the way they were – that’ll teach >me."

Well, the "doh" part wouldn’t surprise me in the least.  I just broke SD of saying that last time she was here.  I can’t IMAGINE where she would have heard or seen that before!  Perhaps at Mommy’s TVLand. > Or do you think if you ask her to pay half, then she’ll claim she >can’t and try to put her daughter back into the less expensive situation >just for spite.  Do you think because she likes the current daycare >situation she’ll just shrug her shoulders and think it’s best for SD so >she’ll just eat the loss?  Not if she’s the way you have described her.  Do >you think a judge will insist that she keep her part of the agreement if you >don’t keep yours?

We think we will ask for her income statements to be shown.  We will produce letters listing out all of these expensive things she has been buying and doing lately (after the preschool contract was signed). She is not getting any extra money because we are paying more than half of the preschool.  She is staying at the same rate as what she has been paying for half of daycare for four years.  So, we believed her when she said she couldn’t afford the extra.  All over their court orders it states that the parents should deal with each other "in good faith".  Well, that was what we were doing.  But, she dealt in bad faith with us, crying poor when she wasn’t.  We offered to pay the lion’s share just to get her to quit jerking us around. She has not dealt in good faith with us from the beginning regarding preschool.  We all decided in November to find SD a preschool.  BM wrote and told us she had looked at several and had a list.  We also went out and I personally visited at least ten preschools.  We provided our list of choices to BM.  We asked for hers.  She didn’t have one.  She gave us the name of one preschool. I went and looked at it.  She had not even looked at it yet, and when she did, it turned out I had more information on it than she did.  We did not find that preschool acceptable.  We asked for some of her other choices.  The only other one she gave us was Head Start. I also went over and saw that before she had ever visited.  By that time we were having SD’s special ed conference.  We went through the special ed program with SD, and I even drove her there on BM’s custody days, so she could go. (BM EXPECTS this to happen.  You would think that when someone is doing a person a favor, she might show a little appreciation – not be hateful.)  I took time off work to work with SD on various skills and communicated what we were working on to BM. Only hostility from BM for doing this.  During that time (May), BM finally got around to visiting a few of our list of preschools.  We told her we took SD over to our favorite school, and she loved it.  The next week she took SD over to same school, and both loved it.  She spent the next MONTH haggling over the price with us. (During which time, she actually also agreed to go halves with us on a more expensive, but less quality preschool.) We offered to pay the most, partly because we believed her when she said paying more would financially burden her, partly to get the haggling over with and shut her up so we could get SD in a decent preschool.  This happened by the end of June. That is a synopsis of the events, leaving out all the hateful letter writing in between from BM. One of the ways we can afford to pay the extra for preschool is by keeping attorney costs down.  When BM causes us, by her actions, to get an unexpected legal cost, that defeats the whole idea.  She can have her attorney involved all she wants, but we ought to have the choice about whether ours is involved. (We have solved this problem with our attorney’s office, now, however and they will not deal with anything from the opposing counsel’s office without our permission.) >    You are the ones not wanting to keep your part of the agreement.

If she had not caused us this last legal fee, we probably would have left it alone. We are not going to sit around and just take this kind of BS from her for the next fourteen years. Actually, we do think a judge will leave SD in the preschool she is in, anyway, because of the flip-flopping between households for custody weeks.   This school, whose routine she has adjusted to, is a source of stability for her. That is why the judge left her in the daycare she was previously in. >    This alteration to the attorney signature space is not relevant to the >agreement itself.  If you want to pursue that it’s a different issue. >*Verbal* agreements are supposed to be binding.

Yes, they are, but they are one person’s word against another’s.  Very hard to prove.  If we could pursue every verbal agreement BM has welched on, we could probably own her (not that we would want to). Geri

Response:

I hate to say it, but DH and BM have been aprt for over 5 yrs now and BM still won’t just get over it.  The horrible thing is no matter how hard DH tries to be civil for SDs sake, BM won’t give the hate and anger up.  It will probably continue ripping SD apart for the rest of her life, and there is nothing that we can do about it from here.  It really sucks, and I have a really strong maternal instinct, even for SD who is a challenge to put it nicely, so I feel like ripping BM a new hole all the time.  Ironic isn’t it, when maternal instinct makes you want to protect a kid from their own mother? Heather – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It has been over a year now – we wish she would just get on with her own life >and leave us alone. >Geri

Response:

>You know if you say it w/ your step-kids you get brownie points too.

 We say prayers with SD every night we have her (and we always "God Bless" mommy, too!).  In fact, I think SD has taught her mother our dinner and bedtime prayers. Geri

Response:

well, Kitley….I am totally with you!!!!!!! I just dont understand why we (as sm’s) are supposed to be so caring and considerate of a woman,whom, it seems, in 98% of the cases here, has only caused us, their ex-husbands, and children nothing but pain, frustration, and financial burdens. I get SO tired of everyone telling me to just ignore BM, to "Not stoop to her level"….The comment has been made that bm’s are human and have feelings too. Okay, I am not disputing that. But why on earth must they continue to be so spiteful and cruel long after the fact? I have tried SO hard to be nice to this woman….many times have went miles out of my way to cater to her wants and needs, but it has brought me nothing but grief. She ends up turning my words around, accuses me of all sorts of horrible things, and attempts to turn the kids against me. I refuse now, to have anything to do with her….if she wants to discuss anything pertaining the kids, she can go through my husband, cuz after all, they are HER kids(which she just loves to remind me…like I would ever want to take credit for them….esp SD, who is a miniature version of mommy in every way). I have been told by others that she probably wishes she would have done things different, and is jealous of me for having the relationship with her kids and my husband that she wishes she had…..well, I say she HAD her chance…that she’s the one who chose to walk out on him and the kids when they were just babies…and this was over 6 years ago already….she’s remarried with another child now….she only stays in her first two kids’ lives to be a major pain in the ass to me. The only time she has any contact with the kids at all is when they are there for summer or vacations….otherwise they dont get so much as a post card. She says she loves the kids and wants what;s in their best interest….well, brainwashing your children into thinking you walk on water and constantly putting down their father and sm arent exactly the most loving, selfless acts. Not to mention bringing them to drug parties….leaving them home alone, "forgetting" to feed them, and slapping them "because they didnt come in fast enough when I called"……she once told me she wishes Clyde and I would leave her alone and get on with our lives….I had to laugh at that. We would like nothing better for her to disappear off the face of the earth, and let these kids have a chance at a normal, stable life. But I guess that’s all in a story for another time. Basically, I just think that when BM’s start acting like real human beings, only then can they deserve to be treated as such. They should all take a step back and examine thier own lives…..maybe they will see that no, the whole world is not out to get them….that they have made their own beds, and it’s time to lie in them. Maybe if they would treat us with the respect we deserve, things would be different. But why should we be nice to someone who treats us and our family this way? You know we wouldn’t put up with it from anyone else…..!!! Sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is knowing that eventually, Bm is going to get what she deserves…….like they say, what goes around comes around!  (I’ll be the one in the front row doing the happy dance.) Newsgroups <kitl…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:rr8p16jokrl22@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> at the result of  pissing everyone off……i think kim was just making an > angry comment.  it comes as a level > of frustration.  i mean, hey, even i’ve made the comment "if she was on fire > i wouldn’t  piss on her to put it out." > i mean, really, being human, i’d be glad to piss on her.  i’m right with ya, > kim. > kitley (who probably is going to get flamed) > Cindy Martin <imaf…@swbell.net> wrote in message > news:y7Ls3.364$DI3.38575@typhoon01.swbell.net… > > >Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message > > >news:19990812173148.11073.00000175@ng-cs1.aol.com… > > >> >But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat > her > > >> >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. She’s > a > > >> >human being. > > Geri, > > I know you have problems with the ex, but consider this — if you get > beaten > > by your SO you have no control over your life.  You have to constantly > watch > > what you do and say because you never know what’s going to set them off > > next.  An innocent remark can get you flying into a wall or a black eye. > > I’m sorry, but NOBODY deserves to be beaten or hit.  There is no reason in > > this world for that to happen. > > Pray to God you never know the terror, fear, and instability in your life > > when your SO is so controlling and unstable.  I hope you never know what > > it’s like to have to watch everything you say.  You will probably never be > > on the receiving end of this behavior and good for you.  But, those who > are > > lose a lot of self esteem, pride, and the control of their life. > > And, yes, I’ve been there, done that.  There’s no responsibility on the > > other part.  It’s never THEIR fault, it’s always yours.  I’ve lost count > of > > the times I’ve heard if I didn’t make him so mad, he wouldn’t…. > > It’s not fair when you lose control of your life and maybe the ex feels > that > > with her daughter she’s losing control again.

Response:

Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message

news:19990813003757.25814.00000361@ng-cc1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >It is flat out wrong to use a child in this > >way to deliberately cause any kind of pain to the other parent, even if it’s > >just to deliberately cause them financial stress that was not necessary. > >Period. > Lori, my husband and I were just discussing this on the commute home this > afternoon.  That is how we see it – all of her lies, tricks and dirty tactics > are not about her daughter – they are about punishing my husband, and about > winning some kind of "game". > We were also talking about what Kim wrote about her being a human, etc., and my > husband had a very good point (this is one reason why we are good for each > other – we calm each other down when we are stressed) – yes, BM is a human > being.  She is a sick one, as in mentally ill.  We think she even may believe > the lies she tells to be the truth at times.

We *know* that my stepson’s Mother believes with every fiber of her being, the lies she speaks.  Doesn’t make it any easier for us to have sympathy for her though, given that in her anger and sickness she denied father and child a relationship for more than a year simply to punish my husband, and the court allowed her to do it because this is a paternity case, and we couldn’t afford a lawyer. > It makes me really sad to see her use her child as a pawn to punish my husband. >  It has been over a year now – we wish she would just get on with her own life > and leave us alone.

So do we.  For as much as I have been able to work through a lot of what has gone on in the past few years, I still hold on to the fact that in approximately 16 years, we will no longer have to deal with her at all, other than incidentally, at things like my stepson’s graduation, wedding, etc.  That in 16 years, she’ll be off our payroll, and probably on the streets, since she refuses to go out and get a job.  Will I feel sorry for her if that happens?  Not one bit.  She’s making her own bed. lori

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>It is flat out wrong to use a child in this >way to deliberately cause any kind of pain to the other parent, even if it’s >just to deliberately cause them financial stress that was not necessary. >Period.

Lori, my husband and I were just discussing this on the commute home this afternoon.  That is how we see it – all of her lies, tricks and dirty tactics are not about her daughter – they are about punishing my husband, and about winning some kind of "game". We were also talking about what Kim wrote about her being a human, etc., and my husband had a very good point (this is one reason why we are good for each other – we calm each other down when we are stressed) – yes, BM is a human being.  She is a sick one, as in mentally ill.  We think she even may believe the lies she tells to be the truth at times.  She needs to get herself some help and she is in no position to be responsible for the care of a child for any length of time.  Actually, the social worker who did our home study recommended she get some therapy for anger management, but it did not get put into the court orders.  Anyone want to take odds on whether she did it or not? She did take the contemnor class which is supposed to teach the parents how to communicate with one another, prior to the latest garbage she has done, so obviously that was a waste of time for her.  Oh, well. It makes me really sad to see her use her child as a pawn to punish my husband.  It has been over a year now – we wish she would just get on with her own life and leave us alone.   Geri

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>Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message >news:19990812173148.11073.00000175@ng-cs1.aol.com… >> >But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat her >> >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. She’s a >> >human being.

Geri, I know you have problems with the ex, but consider this — if you get beaten by your SO you have no control over your life.  You have to constantly watch what you do and say because you never know what’s going to set them off next.  An innocent remark can get you flying into a wall or a black eye. I’m sorry, but NOBODY deserves to be beaten or hit.  There is no reason in this world for that to happen. Pray to God you never know the terror, fear, and instability in your life when your SO is so controlling and unstable.  I hope you never know what it’s like to have to watch everything you say.  You will probably never be on the receiving end of this behavior and good for you.  But, those who are lose a lot of self esteem, pride, and the control of their life. And, yes, I’ve been there, done that.  There’s no responsibility on the other part.  It’s never THEIR fault, it’s always yours.  I’ve lost count of the times I’ve heard if I didn’t make him so mad, he wouldn’t…. It’s not fair when you lose control of your life and maybe the ex feels that with her daughter she’s losing control again.

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Gp lenexa wrote in message <19990812124041.13271.00000…@ng-cd1.aol.com>… >Merrie, I swear to God, if you witnessed BM murdering her child in cold blood, >you would probably still find a way to defend her.

    No – I’d tell her to stop but she can’t hear me.  Where as, you – the person slapping a bullseye and holding up your SD for target practice can.     What do you expect BM’s reaction to your desire to void the agreement will be?  Think she’ll slap her head and say "doh" and then smile and think -"gee, I should have left things the way they were – that’ll teach me."  Or do you think if you ask her to pay half, then she’ll claim she can’t and try to put her daughter back into the less expensive situation just for spite.  Do you think because she likes the current daycare situation she’ll just shrug her shoulders and think it’s best for SD so she’ll just eat the loss?  Not if she’s the way you have described her.  Do you think a judge will insist that she keep her part of the agreement if you don’t keep yours?     You are the ones not wanting to keep your part of the agreement.     This alteration to the attorney signature space is not relevant to the agreement itself.  If you want to pursue that it’s a different issue. *Verbal* agreements are supposed to be binding.     Ask yourself,  what will BM’s reaction be and what are the consequences for my SD. That’s all. Merrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You know, anyone who knows me in person knows I very rarely get angry or stress >out, I let a LOT just slide by, and I am non-violent and pretty >non-confrontational.  But I can tell you that the year I have had of dealing >with this woman has made me understand how her last husband could beat the tar >out of her. (Too bad he didn’t do a better job of it.)  I have no doubt she >deserved everything she got.  I would challenge anyone to have to deal with her >for six months and not want to just slap her tits (sorry to be crude) together >but good!  I have never met a person who has made me think more un-Christian >thoughts in my whole entire life, and believe me, that doesn’t make me happy. >Geri

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>But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat her >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. She’s a >human being.

BTW, Kim – up until I knew this women and had personal dealings with her (I didn’t write the really bad stuff she has tried to do to me personally, because I know it is probably jealousy motivated.) I would have absolutely agreed with you on this point.  I absolutely don’t believe in violence or anything to do with it.  With the dealings we have had with this person the last couple of weeks, however, any shred of any kind of compassion I could have even remotely even faked for her has vanished.  I suppose that will get me a lot of flames, but I can’t think of anything bad enough to wish on her, and I hate the idea that there is someone who has provoked me into feeling this harsh. Geri

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Gp lenexa <gplen…@aol.comiceberg> wrote in message

news:19990812173148.11073.00000175@ng-cs1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat her > >had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. She’s a > >human being. > BTW, Kim – up until I knew this women and had personal dealings with her (I > didn’t write the really bad stuff she has tried to do to me personally, because > I know it is probably jealousy motivated.) I would have absolutely agreed with > you on this point.  I absolutely don’t believe in violence or anything to do > with it.  With the dealings we have had with this person the last couple of > weeks, however, any shred of any kind of compassion I could have even remotely > even faked for her has vanished.  I suppose that will get me a lot of flames, > but I can’t think of anything bad enough to wish on her, and I hate the idea > that there is someone who has provoked me into feeling this harsh.

Hate like crazy to admit this, but I can *totally* empathize with the way Geri feels, and because I am very serious about my Christian faith, I also find it very painful to feel this way, when I do.I feel nothing but complete contempt for anyone who uses her child as an instrument of punishment and/or control over the other parent, regardless of her reason.  I don’t care if she is hurt that he didn’t marry her, just like I don’t care if my stepson’s Mother is hurt and angry that my husband reconciled with me and refused to leave me & our child for her.  It is flat out wrong to use a child in this way to deliberately cause any kind of pain to the other parent, even if it’s just to deliberately cause them financial stress that was not necessary. Period. Lori

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>Our case was one >of the rare instances that a judge threatened to make the supported >party pay the supporting party’s legal costs because of so much >unnecessary legal crap on BM’s part.

I wish we could have your judge. >Can you possibly find some sympathy for her?

I used to try to, believe it or not, but I can’t. Geri

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gplen…@aol.comiceberg (Gp lenexa) writes >You know, anyone who knows me in person knows I very rarely get angry or stress >out, I let a LOT just slide by, and I am non-violent and pretty >non-confrontational.  But I can tell you that the year I have had of dealing >with this woman has made me understand how her last husband could beat the tar >out of her. (Too bad he didn’t do a better job of it.)  I have no doubt she >deserved everything she got.  I would challenge anyone to have to deal with her >for six months and not want to just slap her tits (sorry to be crude) together >but good!  I have never met a person who has made me think more un-Christian >thoughts in my whole entire life, and believe me, that doesn’t make me happy.

Just when I think I can view you with some sympathy, you come back and remind me of all the things I find so odious about your attitude (please note: ‘odious’ modifies ‘attitude’ not ‘you’) Geri, most of us went through lots of crap with our BM’s. You weren’t around when I first got here so you don’t know my history. Our BM went through three attorneys in the space of a year. Her first attorney turned down an offer that gave her, quite literally, 2x what she eventually received in property, and 35% higher CS and SS. We were the only trial the judge on our case had *all year* — every other case on her docket settled. Not ours. We won on every point we litigated. Our case was one of the rare instances that a judge threatened to make the supported party pay the supporting party’s legal costs because of so much unnecessary legal crap on BM’s part. We went through denied visitation and some PAS and most of the other crap typical of ugly divorces. We too wanted to move across the country (or out of the country) and just send the checks every month. We, too, fantasized about plane crashes. And we had the added benefit of an SD who hated me and wanted nothing but to punish her father at every opportunity. At least your SD likes you and loves her dad But to think she deserved to be beaten, and wish a man who had beat her had done a better job of it? Geri, you’re way out of line here. She’s a human being. She’s probably hurting more than you can imagine over all of this. She probably uses a lawyer because she’s scared not to. You and DH are two. She’s alone. He had a child with her and didn’t marry her. He married you in the space of weeks. Have you ever considered just how hard it must be to be her? Can you possibly find some sympathy for her? -k. — i…@panix.com              |   The Max Cam is up and running! Try it: Kim Scheinberg              |     www.panix.com/~jzk  TAKE PICTURE

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I tried to respond to Merrie’s message earlier, but it didn’t seem to show up, so I am going to try to reconstruct it/make a new one.  Hopefully you all won’t read this twice! >>I think it’s kind of ironic that you wish to null and void this contract

because of something so irrelevant to the contract itself.<< If this was just one incident, we probably would let it go by.  However, what she did flies in the face of "working together to co-parent", which is one of BM’s favorite little catch phrases that she loves to spout, but not to live by.  She makes every single thing she does that involves us a fiasco – nothing can ever be simple and straight-forward with her.  Well, this time there is going to be a consequence to deliberately doing exactly what we asked her not to do, at least five times (documented), without letting us know until after the fact. She is not the kind of person who needs to be hit over the head with a concept to grasp it – she needs to be hit over the head repeatedly with it.  It is very frustrating. For example, earlier in the year, my husband asked her not to contact his family – they don’t want to hear from her.  She kept doing it. They told her, we told her.  It took FIVE times for her to finally get it. (More on that later.) >> Notaries are not legal counsel.<<

I am aware of that.  I used to be a notary.  However, they can witness and stamp signatures on contracts and other legal documents.  An attorney’s signature is not necessary on the type of document we drew up. >>And people without integrity try to break them all the time.  One tactic

they use is to claim they didn’t understand what they were signing.  "I didn’t have an adequate attorney."<< I have personally written contracts for kittens I have sold that are worth many hundreds more dollars than this preschool contract binds us to.  Aside from having an attorney friend check over the draft of the original for language, I have never had or needed an attorney’s signature on any of these documents, and I do assure you they are quite enforceable. >> Integrity means doing what you say you are going to do.  You have not

said that she altered the body or the actual contents of the agreement.  She didn’t in any means fabricate your agreement that you would pay for all the preschool. I seem to remember you eagerly volunteering to pay the full tuition of this school if only BM would agree to it.  BM wanted the other situation (cheaper), but you wanted this – you picked it.<< And she will stay at that preschool.  However when you are talking about lack of integrity and lack of good faith we can write books on BM’s lack of both. We did agree to the terms of the contract, in fact we offered BM a better deal for her financially, but she was too stupid to understand it or take us up on it.  But, we foolishly believed she was truly going to be under financial hardship to pay for half of this preschool.  Well, the next time something like this comes up, we will certainly expect documentation of such before believing such a lie. >> I don’t think BM is the one that sent you a bill.<<

No, but she caused the unnecessary cost to be incurred.  She will pay one way or another for that.  (My dad offered me last night to draw up one of his "Sears & Roebuck catalogue sized" contracts in our favor regarding SD and a lot of issues and send it to her attorney for his review.  Naturally they would not go for it, but it would take hours to read over – translated to attorney time billed to BM.  I wonder how she would like to see how to get the same treatment she gave us.) The main point of our frustration is that if this were just one incident, it would be easier to let it slide.  There are about five current issues going at any given time with her.  If she can find a way to make trouble or complication, she does it. The most recent occurred on Monday.  We received a letter in the mail from BM stating she had taken SD on vacation and would be back Friday, and that a personal exchange fo SD should take place at the sheriff’s office.  Our court order for this sort of thing states that we should have been given a departure and arrival date and an emergency phone number to reach her.  What we got was only an arrival date (Friday) and her mother’s telephone number, after she already left town and we had no means of discussing this exchange with her. Our order also states that exchanges take place at the child’s daycare or preschool.  We have previously used the sheriff’s office when an exchange had to take place on days when the preschool or daycare were closed, ONLY. Meanwhile, previously we have all agreed that these personal exchanges with both parents present are bad for SD and we want to avoid them as much as possible. Also, after earlier in the year when we finally got it through to BM not to contact my husband’s family, she sent us a letter stating in no uncertain terms that he should not contact her family (not that we would want to).  Also, the preschool will still be open at exchange time, so using the sheriff’s office is not necessary.  Therefore, we had to contact the preschool to let them know the exchange WOULD be taking place there (they were aghast to know they knew about SD’s vacation long before we did), call BM’s mother to let her know to tell BM that we will NOT be doing a personal exchange with her and to leave SD at preschool as she usually does, and to be gone before we get there.  What a pain. All of that could have been avoided by simply leaving the plans as they always have been, per the orders.  But no – that is too easy.  Again – a small issue in and of itself.  But you start adding them up and the desire to try to cooperate with this lunatic evaporates.  She creates at least (on a good week) an issue or incident a week, usually more.  My husband likes to go directly by the court orders and instead of working with him, she tries to push her luck to the edge every chance she gets. Back in June we decided that when BM writes her crazy letters we would try to ignore the crazy parts and deal with her in a business-like manner (hoping to try to get her off this seeking negative attention kick she seems to enjoy). We wrote cheerful letters telling her about SD’s week, activities, etc., since this is what BM seemed to want from us.  We gave her any information she asked for, sent her copies of Sunday School certificates and other things like this that SD got during our weeks – things we totally are not ORDERED to do, just to try to build a working relationship with her.  In return we got zero shared information,  letters filled with venom, insults, personal attacks, absolute lies and sneaky behavior from her. We are sick of being jerked around by her.  So, if we have to void this preschool contract to teach her a lesson about dealing in good faith, maybe that is what we should do.  Our nice informative letters, etc. have just dried up too.  My husband says at this point we are going to consider ourselves in litigation with her and the only communication she will get from us will be absolute essentials.  I would like to write her and tell her that is all we want from her as well, but my husband says that the crap she writes in her letters can be used against her later, so we should let her keep writing.  (She writes lies in one letter contradicting a lie she wrote in another – she can’t even keep track of her own fabrications!) Merrie, I swear to God, if you witnessed BM murdering her child in cold blood, you would probably still find a way to defend her. You know, anyone who knows me in person knows I very rarely get angry or stress out, I let a LOT just slide by, and I am non-violent and pretty non-confrontational.  But I can tell you that the year I have had of dealing with this woman has made me understand how her last husband could beat the tar out of her. (Too bad he didn’t do a better job of it.)  I have no doubt she deserved everything she got.  I would challenge anyone to have to deal with her for six months and not want to just slap her tits (sorry to be crude) together but good!  I have never met a person who has made me think more un-Christian thoughts in my whole entire life, and believe me, that doesn’t make me happy. Geri

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