Christianity QA

Question:

I am one, and I attend a 100-120ct congregation church that is Gospel based and Born Again. My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work."

Obviously, if your church members feel that way, then they are NOT born again, nor Bible based, or maybe they have NEVER DONE ALL that Christ said in the gospel, for if they did, they would be able to discern truth from lies and BUSH is a SATANIST, who LIES CONTINUOUSLY, pretending to be Christian, and they SHOULD know that if they had the Holy Spirit of truth, whom guides into all truths. So, YOU are right and they are wrong, so maybe you should forget about that church and just have an intimate, personal, honest and complete relationship with GOD and concern yourself with commitment to serving ONLY HIM. you wrote. On the subject of an energy-sufficient nation, a good portion of these folks believe we should gain total access to the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge – and any other NWRs under which petroleum may exist. When I spoke of solar energy and geo-thermal technology, they just crossed their arms and looked at me funny. One even stated, "Do you have any regard for our nation’s economy whatsoever?!?!"

Do you know that the government has the power to any time change the economy to prosperity or depression in an instant, but because they want to implement the New World Order, cause American workers to accept lower wages with more work and time, to enslave them without complaint, so they cause the economy to be low and pretend they had nothing to do with it. The government and global elite care ONLY about wealth and power and OIL is the greatest financial gain on the earth, so even though they have the technology to power ANYTHING without oil,  gas or any fuel whatsoever, in magnetism, and/or laser technology, however, because it would not be a profitable as renewable fuel source, they refuse to allow it to be manufactured, because they want financial gain and profits for themselves, NOT caring about the environment, the people or the earth, or anything else, except their own pockets. PS. Democrats or any political affiliation and "Christian" are a contradiction in terms. — Dore http://dorewilliamson.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am one, and I attend a 100-120ct congregation church that is Gospel based and Born Again. My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." On the subject of an energy-sufficient nation, a good portion of these folks believe we should gain total access to the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge – and any other NWRs under which petroleum may exist. When I spoke of solar energy and geo-thermal technology, they just crossed their arms and looked at me funny. One even stated, "Do you have any regard for our nation’s economy whatsoever?!?!" I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID? Thanks for your input, -ChrisCoaster EXPERIENCE!!"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for the following monologues, what are they supposed to prove?  That George Bush does not fit into your particular religious mold?  God’s ways are not your ways.  And until you know the end from the beginning, you cannot say. worship…Is it wrong?"* alt.test.fishing) You want me to take you seriously, Ozone?  I mean, are you really, really concerned about — what’s this? — "religious mold"? and "God’s ways"? and "know[ing] the end from the beginning"?

I am not concerned with your religious mold, for it is yours, and not mine. I am however, concerned with God’s ways, for they are not your ways, and from His ways the end is known from the beginning. But surely you jest, for what spirit was it that once inspired you to write, "Fish worship…Is it wrong?"

You are mistaken. I am not the author of the archieved post you present. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, you’re still all mixed up about US President George W. Bush.

Again you are mistaken. Mr. Bush is a conformist. Bowed down and bent to a man-made belief system, a religous mold that is neither right nor true. For don’t you know that it’s Bush himself who claims to "fit into [the] particular religious mold" of the born-again Christian electorate in America?  And so I’ve been quoting him at length in order to at least compare that claim and that "mold".  At the end of the day, however — on Judgment Day, that is, and according to the Bible, which is God’s word — a truly born-again Jewish or Gentile Christian is only he or she who remembers Jesus always and receives daily the good news of salvation from His crucifixion, burial and resurrection with a heart of repentance, faith, obedience, service, love and joyful endurance.

Your judgement of Mr. Bush is by religious judgement, and not righteous judgement, demonstrating the conformist in you as well. For your judgement issues forth from a man-made religious belief system, which as always is the way of man, and not God.

Response:

(clipped for brevity) Are the principles Dubya follows, the same principles Jesus of Nazareth followed and taught? No. And this answers your questions concerning other people. Compare the principles they follow to those of Jesus of Nazareth. Follow the principles of God regardless of what fellow mankind says, or teaches, or how they respond to good words. It is more important to obey the principles of God than to attempt to please fellow man by following man’s principles. It’s a matter of choice as to who you will give honor to. Man’s well being should always come first, not money. An illegal invasion and war is not justified by Bush’s hatred for Hussein. All the blood of the many service people who have died are on the head of Bush and his cabinet of warmongers. It has been an abuse of power by Bush who has lied and attempted to manipulate congress and the American people in order to get what he wants, more power and more control. He set a precedence which the nation of people calling their selves Israel have followed. All it is is an attempt to justify invasion, war and murder of people. The extremely dangerous precedent may and probably will be followed by other nations who will attempt to justify their acts the same way Bush has attempted to do. It is abominable in the eyes of God. Murder is murder. And as billions of dollars are squandered by Bush, the poor get poorer, the sick get sicker, and the downtrodden are trod down a little more. But, Bush’s friends and political contributors get richer and richer. The love of money and hatred for righteousness is the mark of the beast; the evil one who is the enemy of God and all that is good and right. DW Suiter Son of God

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." … I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID? No, they don’t! Yes, they do! It’s called freedom of speech. A right granted in the United States to it’s citizens by the first amendment. Look into it sometime. there is nothing wrong with free speech but there definately is something wrong with the preachers turning their churches into political groups.

And there is nothing new about it. What is has always been. The preachers and politicians are merely two sides of the same coin, both being of the institutons of man.

Response:

As for the following monologues, what are they supposed to prove?  That George Bush does not fit into your particular religious mold?  God’s ways are not your ways.  And until you know the end from the beginning, you cannot say.

worship…Is it wrong?"* alt.test.fishing) You want me to take you seriously, Ozone?  I mean, are you really, really concerned about — what’s this? — "religious mold"? and "God’s ways"? and "know[ing] the end from the beginning"?  But surely you jest, for what spirit was it that once inspired you to write, "Fish worship…Is it wrong?" Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, you’re still all mixed up about US President George W. Bush.  For don’t you know that it’s Bush himself who claims to "fit into [the] particular religious mold" of the born-again Christian electorate in America?  And so I’ve been quoting him at length in order to at least compare that claim and that "mold".  At the end of the day, however — on Judgment Day, that is, and according to the Bible, which is God’s word — a truly born-again Jewish or Gentile Christian is only he or she who remembers Jesus always and receives daily the good news of salvation from His crucifixion, burial and resurrection with a heart of repentance, faith, obedience, service, love and joyful endurance. HpO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." … I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID? No, they don’t! Yes, they do! It’s called freedom of speech. A right granted in the United States to it’s citizens by the first amendment. Look into it sometime. As for the following monologues, what are they supposed to prove? That George Bush does not fit into your particular religious mold? God’s ways are not your ways. And until you know the end from the beginning, you cannot say. Kindly copy the following monologues for your church pastor and see if he’d still stick to his "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work" line after listening to his own words in light of Bush’s own. GEORGE W. BUSH: [You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. (1) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: We’re gonna take this thing [the evangelicals] over… (2) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Pussy [is what my father and I talk about]. (3) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Go to hell… (4) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: There’s Adam Clymer — major league asshole — from the New York Times… (5) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: People communicate with God and reach God in different ways.  …And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one time told me, for me not to try to figure out…who gets to go to heaven.  …And when I told you I’m a sinner — you need to take that in the figurative sense. (6) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society, so secret I can’t say anything more. (7) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …four Gentile governors – one Methodist, two Catholics, and a Mormon, and several Jewish-American friends…prayed together, on bended knee…around an altar kneeling, one common Lord. Faith changes lives.  I know, because faith has changed mine. (8) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: ["Did I have any qualms, say, about joining an elite secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale University?"]  No qualms at all.  I was honored.  …["How do I demystify it a bit for those who might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral Commission?"]  Without revealing all the great secrets?  …Someone a year ahead of me tapped me.  There was an entry celebration.  I can’t remember whether my dad showed up or not. (9) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Throughout the world, people of all religions recognize Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice and service.  Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the marginalized, he provided moral leadership that continues to inspire countless men, women and children today. (10) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: All Presidents of the United States have come to the National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious views.  No matter what our background, in prayer we share something universal — a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know His plan for our lives.  …Men and women can be good without faith, but faith is a force of goodness.  Men and women can be compassionate without faith, but faith often inspires compassion.  Human beings can love without faith, but faith is a great teacher of love.  …Faith is also important to the civility of our country.  It teaches us not merely to tolerate one another, but to respect one another — to show a regard for different views and the courtesy to listen.  This is essential to democracy.   It is also the proper way to treat human beings created in the divine image.  We’ll have our disagreements.  Civility does not require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs.  Civility does not demand casual creeds and colorless convictions.  Americans have always believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily with one another.  But civility does mean that our public debate ought to be free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will.  We have an obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents.  As the Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from the same spring. (11) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while…  [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. (12) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I have told the nation more than once that…the teachings of Islam are the teachings of peace and good.  …And I also appreciate the prayers to the universal God. (13) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I appreciate your [the Russians'] understanding there is a universal and gracious God. (14) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …universal God…is important — obviously, important part of my life, but very important part of the life of our country. (15) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: As more and more people go to their churches and synagogues and mosques and hear that universal call to love a neighbor, America’s culture is changing.  …Out of the evil done to this great land is going to come incredible good… (16) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam is…a faith based upon love, not hate. …Americans of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity… Everybody ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. (17) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I am pleased to join you today in the celebration of Eid, the culmination of the Holy Month of Ramadan.  …Islam traces its origins back to God’s call on Abraham.  And Ramadan commemorates the revelation of God’s word in the Holy Koran to the prophet Mohammad…  The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that…Islam affirms God’s justice…  Eid Mubarak.  God bless.  (18) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. (19) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: F___ Saddam.  We’re taking him out. (20) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: America welcomes individuals of all backgrounds and religions, and our citizens hold diverse beliefs.  In prayer, we share the universal desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to seek the plans He has for our lives.  …In this hour of history’s calling, Americans are bowing humbly in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and in their own homes, in the presence of the Almighty.  …Now, therefore, I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." … I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID? No, they don’t! Yes, they do! It’s called freedom of speech. A right granted in the United States to it’s citizens by the first amendment. Look into it sometime.

there is nothing wrong with free speech but there definately is something wrong with the preachers turning their churches into political groups. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for the following monologues, what are they supposed to prove? That George Bush does not fit into your particular religious mold? God’s ways are not your ways. And until you know the end from the beginning, you cannot say. Kindly copy the following monologues for your church pastor and see if he’d still stick to his "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work" line after listening to his own words in light of Bush’s own. GEORGE W. BUSH: [You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. (1) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: We’re gonna take this thing [the evangelicals] over… (2) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Pussy [is what my father and I talk about]. (3) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Go to hell… (4) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: There’s Adam Clymer — major league asshole — from the New York Times… (5) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: People communicate with God and reach God in different ways.  …And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one time told me, for me not to try to figure out…who gets to go to heaven.  …And when I told you I’m a sinner — you need to take that in the figurative sense. (6) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society, so secret I can’t say anything more. (7) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …four Gentile governors – one Methodist, two Catholics, and a Mormon, and several Jewish-American friends…prayed together, on bended knee…around an altar kneeling, one common Lord. Faith changes lives.  I know, because faith has changed mine. (8) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: ["Did I have any qualms, say, about joining an elite secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale University?"]  No qualms at all.  I was honored.  …["How do I demystify it a bit for those who might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral Commission?"]  Without revealing all the great secrets?  …Someone a year ahead of me tapped me.  There was an entry celebration.  I can’t remember whether my dad showed up or not. (9) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Throughout the world, people of all religions recognize Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice and service.  Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the marginalized, he provided moral leadership that continues to inspire countless men, women and children today. (10) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: All Presidents of the United States have come to the National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious views.  No matter what our background, in prayer we share something universal — a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know His plan for our lives.  …Men and women can be good without faith, but faith is a force of goodness.  Men and women can be compassionate without faith, but faith often inspires compassion.  Human beings can love without faith, but faith is a great teacher of love.  …Faith is also important to the civility of our country.  It teaches us not merely to tolerate one another, but to respect one another — to show a regard for different views and the courtesy to listen.  This is essential to democracy.   It is also the proper way to treat human beings created in the divine image.  We’ll have our disagreements.  Civility does not require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs.  Civility does not demand casual creeds and colorless convictions.  Americans have always believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily with one another.  But civility does mean that our public debate ought to be free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will.  We have an obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents.  As the Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from the same spring. (11) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work.

this pastor is obviously a right wing pastor. he has probably baptized who knows how many people in the name of Jesus and then told them they can anything they want to. that is probably why bush can call people filthy names the right wing christians just sit there and giggle and laugh. u dont need a church to have God, if u feel better if u have a church, do some lookin, there are a few good ones out there but be forewarned. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GEORGE W. BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while…  [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. (12) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I have told the nation more than once that…the teachings of Islam are the teachings of peace and good.  …And I also appreciate the prayers to the universal God. (13) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I appreciate your [the Russians'] understanding there is a universal and gracious God. (14) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …universal God…is important — obviously, important part of my life, but very important part of the life of our country. (15) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: As more and more people go to their churches and synagogues and mosques and hear that universal call to love a neighbor, America’s culture is changing.  …Out of the evil done to this great land is going to come incredible good… (16) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam is…a faith based upon love, not hate. …Americans of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity… Everybody ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. (17) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I am pleased to join you today in the celebration of Eid, the culmination of the Holy Month of Ramadan.  …Islam traces its origins back to God’s call on Abraham.  And Ramadan commemorates the revelation of God’s word in the Holy Koran to the prophet Mohammad…  The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that…Islam affirms God’s justice…  Eid Mubarak.  God bless.  (18) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. (19) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: F___ Saddam.  We’re taking him out. (20) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: America welcomes individuals of all backgrounds and religions, and our citizens hold diverse beliefs.  In prayer, we share the universal desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to seek the plans He has for our lives.  …In this hour of history’s calling, Americans are bowing humbly in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and in their own homes, in the presence of the Almighty.  …Now, therefore, I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2003, as a National Day of Prayer. I ask the citizens of our Nation to pray, each after his or her own faith, in thanksgiving for the freedoms and blessings we have received and for God’s continued guidance and protection. (21) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: We are mindful as well that some good men and women are not making the journey home.  …Every name, every life is a loss to our military, to our nation and to the loved ones who grieve. There is no homecoming for these families.  Yet we pray in God’s time their reunion will come. (22) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East.  If you [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas] help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them. (23) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. S O U R C E S (1) George W.

… read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." … I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID? No, they don’t!

Yes, they do! It’s called freedom of speech. A right granted in the United States to it’s citizens by the first amendment. Look into it sometime. As for the following monologues, what are they supposed to prove? That George Bush does not fit into your particular religious mold? God’s ways are not your ways. And until you know the end from the beginning, you cannot say. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kindly copy the following monologues for your church pastor and see if he’d still stick to his "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work" line after listening to his own words in light of Bush’s own. GEORGE W. BUSH: [You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. (1) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: We’re gonna take this thing [the evangelicals] over… (2) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Pussy [is what my father and I talk about]. (3) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Go to hell… (4) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: There’s Adam Clymer — major league asshole — from the New York Times… (5) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: People communicate with God and reach God in different ways.  …And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one time told me, for me not to try to figure out…who gets to go to heaven.  …And when I told you I’m a sinner — you need to take that in the figurative sense. (6) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society, so secret I can’t say anything more. (7) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …four Gentile governors – one Methodist, two Catholics, and a Mormon, and several Jewish-American friends…prayed together, on bended knee…around an altar kneeling, one common Lord. Faith changes lives.  I know, because faith has changed mine. (8) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: ["Did I have any qualms, say, about joining an elite secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale University?"]  No qualms at all.  I was honored.  …["How do I demystify it a bit for those who might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral Commission?"]  Without revealing all the great secrets?  …Someone a year ahead of me tapped me.  There was an entry celebration.  I can’t remember whether my dad showed up or not. (9) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Throughout the world, people of all religions recognize Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice and service.  Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the marginalized, he provided moral leadership that continues to inspire countless men, women and children today. (10) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: All Presidents of the United States have come to the National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious views.  No matter what our background, in prayer we share something universal — a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know His plan for our lives.  …Men and women can be good without faith, but faith is a force of goodness.  Men and women can be compassionate without faith, but faith often inspires compassion.  Human beings can love without faith, but faith is a great teacher of love.  …Faith is also important to the civility of our country.  It teaches us not merely to tolerate one another, but to respect one another — to show a regard for different views and the courtesy to listen.  This is essential to democracy.   It is also the proper way to treat human beings created in the divine image.  We’ll have our disagreements.  Civility does not require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs.  Civility does not demand casual creeds and colorless convictions.  Americans have always believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily with one another.  But civility does mean that our public debate ought to be free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will.  We have an obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents.  As the Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from the same spring. (11) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while…  [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. (12) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I have told the nation more than once that…the teachings of Islam are the teachings of peace and good.  …And I also appreciate the prayers to the universal God. (13) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I appreciate your [the Russians'] understanding there is a universal and gracious God. (14) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …universal God…is important — obviously, important part of my life, but very important part of the life of our country. (15) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: As more and more people go to their churches and synagogues and mosques and hear that universal call to love a neighbor, America’s culture is changing.  …Out of the evil done to this great land is going to come incredible good… (16) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam is…a faith based upon love, not hate. …Americans of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity… Everybody ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. (17) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I am pleased to join you today in the celebration of Eid, the culmination of the Holy Month of Ramadan.  …Islam traces its origins back to God’s call on Abraham.  And Ramadan commemorates the revelation of God’s word in the Holy Koran to the prophet Mohammad…  The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that…Islam affirms God’s justice…  Eid Mubarak.  God bless.  (18) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. (19) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: F___ Saddam.  We’re taking him out. (20) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: America welcomes individuals of all backgrounds and religions, and our citizens hold diverse beliefs.  In prayer, we share the universal desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to seek the plans He has for our lives.  …In this hour of history’s calling, Americans are bowing humbly in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and in their own homes, in the presence of the Almighty.  …Now, therefore, I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2003, as a National Day of Prayer. I ask the citizens of our Nation to pray, each after his or her own faith, in thanksgiving for the freedoms and blessings we have received and for God’s continued guidance and protection. (21) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: We are mindful as well that some good men and women are not making the journey home.  …Every name, every life is a loss to our military, to our nation and to the loved ones who grieve. There is no homecoming for these families.  Yet we pray in God’s time their reunion will come. (22) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East.  If you [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas] help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them. (23) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. S O U R C E S (1) George W. Bush in April 1986, addressing Al Hunt of the Wall Street Journal, quoted in Jake Tapper, "God Is Their CoPilot: Both Born-Again, Bush and Gore Have Made This the Most God-Fearing Presidential Race in 100 Years. But Their Faiths Have Led these Men in Two Completely Different Directions," SALON, 07 July 2000, http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/. (2) George W. Bush in March 1987 quoted by Doug Wead, cited in Hanna Rosin, "Applying Personal Faith to Public Policy: ‘Changed Man’ Advocates Church-Based Programs," WASHINGTON POST, 24 July 2000,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&conte… 1740-2000Jul23&notFound=true. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  "[George W. Bush's] father, then running for president, was under attack by what inside the campaign they called ‘the

… read more »

Response:

I am one, and I attend a 100-120ct congregation church that is Gospel based and Born Again. My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." On the subject of an energy-sufficient nation, a good portion of these folks believe we should gain total access to the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge – and any other NWRs under which petroleum may exist. When I spoke of solar energy and geo-thermal technology, they just crossed their arms and looked at me funny. One even stated, "Do you have any regard for our nation’s economy whatsoever?!?!" I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID? Thanks for your input, -ChrisCoaster EXPERIENCE!!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am one, and I attend a 100-120ct congregation church that is Gospel based and Born Again. My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." On the subject of an energy-sufficient nation, a good portion of these folks believe we should gain total access to the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge – and any other NWRs under which petroleum may exist. When I spoke of solar energy and geo-thermal technology, they just crossed their arms and looked at me funny. One even stated, "Do you have any regard for our nation’s economy whatsoever?!?!" I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID? Thanks for your input, -ChrisCoaster EXPERIENCE!!"

ask God for his help . it is very strange that in the year of our Lord 2003 the christian church is becoming more and more a political organization. these people usually also believe that once they are baptized they can do anything they want to. — *LOVE* is all u need.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My opinions against both Iraqi Freedom and the current presidency have gotten me in some bitter disagreements both with the Pastor and other congregants.  I have been judged as "under the spell of the devil" and "mislead by satan" for my opinions, and when I stated that 80% of world nations did not support the U.S.’ action in Iraq, the Pastor himself stated, "They’re being misled by the devil" and that "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work." … I’m not asking for opinion on who’s right-who’s wrong here – what I need to know is, DO THE MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THE STATEMENTS THEY DID?

No, they don’t! Kindly copy the following monologues for your church pastor and see if he’d still stick to his "Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work" line after listening to his own words in light of Bush’s own. GEORGE W. BUSH: [You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. (1) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: We’re gonna take this thing [the evangelicals] over… (2) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Pussy [is what my father and I talk about]. (3) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Go to hell… (4) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: There’s Adam Clymer — major league asshole — from the New York Times… (5) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: People communicate with God and reach God in different ways.  …And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one time told me, for me not to try to figure out…who gets to go to heaven.  …And when I told you I’m a sinner — you need to take that in the figurative sense. (6) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society, so secret I can’t say anything more. (7) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …four Gentile governors – one Methodist, two Catholics, and a Mormon, and several Jewish-American friends…prayed together, on bended knee…around an altar kneeling, one common Lord. Faith changes lives.  I know, because faith has changed mine. (8) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: ["Did I have any qualms, say, about joining an elite secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale University?"]  No qualms at all.  I was honored.  …["How do I demystify it a bit for those who might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral Commission?"]  Without revealing all the great secrets?  …Someone a year ahead of me tapped me.  There was an entry celebration.  I can’t remember whether my dad showed up or not. (9) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Throughout the world, people of all religions recognize Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice and service.  Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the marginalized, he provided moral leadership that continues to inspire countless men, women and children today. (10) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: All Presidents of the United States have come to the National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious views.  No matter what our background, in prayer we share something universal — a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know His plan for our lives.  …Men and women can be good without faith, but faith is a force of goodness.  Men and women can be compassionate without faith, but faith often inspires compassion.  Human beings can love without faith, but faith is a great teacher of love.  …Faith is also important to the civility of our country.  It teaches us not merely to tolerate one another, but to respect one another — to show a regard for different views and the courtesy to listen.  This is essential to democracy.   It is also the proper way to treat human beings created in the divine image.  We’ll have our disagreements.  Civility does not require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs.  Civility does not demand casual creeds and colorless convictions.  Americans have always believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily with one another.  But civility does mean that our public debate ought to be free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will.  We have an obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents.  As the Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from the same spring. (11) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while…  [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. (12) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I have told the nation more than once that…the teachings of Islam are the teachings of peace and good.  …And I also appreciate the prayers to the universal God. (13) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I appreciate your [the Russians'] understanding there is a universal and gracious God. (14) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: …universal God…is important — obviously, important part of my life, but very important part of the life of our country. (15) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: As more and more people go to their churches and synagogues and mosques and hear that universal call to love a neighbor, America’s culture is changing.  …Out of the evil done to this great land is going to come incredible good… (16) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam is…a faith based upon love, not hate. …Americans of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity… Everybody ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. (17) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: I am pleased to join you today in the celebration of Eid, the culmination of the Holy Month of Ramadan.  …Islam traces its origins back to God’s call on Abraham.  And Ramadan commemorates the revelation of God’s word in the Holy Koran to the prophet Mohammad…  The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that…Islam affirms God’s justice…  Eid Mubarak.  God bless.  (18) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. (19) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: F___ Saddam.  We’re taking him out. (20) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: America welcomes individuals of all backgrounds and religions, and our citizens hold diverse beliefs.  In prayer, we share the universal desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to seek the plans He has for our lives.  …In this hour of history’s calling, Americans are bowing humbly in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and in their own homes, in the presence of the Almighty.  …Now, therefore, I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2003, as a National Day of Prayer. I ask the citizens of our Nation to pray, each after his or her own faith, in thanksgiving for the freedoms and blessings we have received and for God’s continued guidance and protection. (21) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: We are mindful as well that some good men and women are not making the journey home.  …Every name, every life is a loss to our military, to our nation and to the loved ones who grieve. There is no homecoming for these families.  Yet we pray in God’s time their reunion will come. (22) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. GEORGE W. BUSH: God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East.  If you [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas] help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them. (23) THE PASTOR: Bush is a Godly man doing God’s work. S O U R C E S (1) George W. Bush in April 1986, addressing Al Hunt of the Wall Street Journal, quoted in Jake Tapper, "God Is Their CoPilot: Both Born-Again, Bush and Gore Have Made This the Most God-Fearing Presidential Race in 100 Years. But Their Faiths Have Led these Men in Two Completely Different Directions," SALON, 07 July 2000, http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/. (2) George W. Bush in March 1987 quoted by Doug Wead, cited in Hanna Rosin, "Applying Personal Faith to Public Policy: ‘Changed Man’ Advocates Church-Based Programs," WASHINGTON POST, 24 July 2000, http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&conte….  "[George W. Bush's] father, then running for president, was under attack by what inside the campaign they called ‘the aliens’ — evangelical Republicans flocking to the candidacy of Pat Robertson. Bush arrived in Washington in March 1987 and was put in charge of ‘coalitions,’ the campaign code word for evangelicals.  ’He came in and said, "We’re gonna take this thing over,"’ recalls Doug Wead, a campaign aide with ties to the evangelicals and Bush’s partner in the venture." (3) George W. Bush in response to a Hartford [Connecticut] Courant reporter who asked what Bush and his father talked about when they weren’t discussing politics at the 1988 Republican convention, quoted in Jake Tapper, op. cit. (4) Texas Governor George W. Bush in 1998, right before leaving for a trip to Israel, in response to an Austin American-Statesman reporter who asked Bush what he would say to the Israelis upon arrival, quoted in Jake Tapper, op. cit. (5) Texas … read more »

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