Christianity QA » Christian Church » Amazing Grace
Question:
which I replied: Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity!
Oh, I thought you were referring to Admiral Grace Hopper… sometimes called "amazing Grace". — Landis Ragon (dS = dq/T) Chief Elf in the Toy Factory. "I’ve got a little list–I’ve got a little list Of society offenders who might well be underground, And who never would be missed–who never would be missed!" – Gilbert and Sullivan : "The Mikado"
Response:
AM felt the need to spout off with this: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Silas et al: What I find so amazing is the number of Christians (and a few Muslims) who post on the atheist sites. Could it be you’re yearning for "conversion" from the yoke of religion, that you’re looking for the courage to separate from the oppression of mind and spirit religious belief imposes, that you lurk in the shadows, wringing your hands, wishing that you, too, could leave all the shackles of religion behind and join us in the joyous release of a life without gods, superstition, sin and the ever-present threat of divine retribution? Take heart, look within, deafen yourself to the threats and condemnations of mean and demented religious believers, and join us in the light. You have nothing to lose but your anger, guilt and shame. Come, brothers and sisters, come! Step up to the river of life and bathe yourself in the cleansing waters of logic and reason. Feel the peace of a world without bible-thumping hypocrites and self-righteous prudes. Throw off the tithe and give joyously to causes that really help your fellow man. Wonder in the marvels of nature as revealed by the clean minds of honest scientists. Be saved from meanness and condemnation! Be born again in freedom and truth! And never, ever, be forced to listen to Christian pop again. You can do it, brothers and sisters; the power is within you. Reach for it and you will find it! Be free at last! May the light of reason bathe your days and the peace of a world wothout gods or demons grace your nights! Will
Wonderfully stated. Thank you. — Yes, the Bible says a lot of things. Quite consistently it is inconsistent, as we can see here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Response:
Silas et al: What I find so amazing is the number of Christians (and a few Muslims) who post on the atheist sites. Could it be you’re yearning for "conversion" from the yoke of religion, that you’re looking for the courage to separate from the oppression of mind and spirit religious belief imposes, that you lurk in the shadows, wringing your hands, wishing that you, too, could leave all the shackles of religion behind and join us in the joyous release of a life without gods, superstition, sin and the ever-present threat of divine retribution? Take heart, look within, deafen yourself to the threats and condemnations of mean and demented religious believers, and join us in the light. You have nothing to lose but your anger, guilt and shame. Come, brothers and sisters, come! Step up to the river of life and bathe yourself in the cleansing waters of logic and reason. Feel the peace of a world without bible-thumping hypocrites and self-righteous prudes. Throw off the tithe and give joyously to causes that really help your fellow man. Wonder in the marvels of nature as revealed by the clean minds of honest scientists. Be saved from meanness and condemnation! Be born again in freedom and truth! And never, ever, be forced to listen to Christian pop again. You can do it, brothers and sisters; the power is within you. Reach for it and you will find it! Be free at last! May the light of reason bathe your days and the peace of a world wothout gods or demons grace your nights! Will
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I find amusing, if not amazing, is all these so-called non-believers, atheists, anti-Christians & evolutionist so regularly frequent and fervently post in all the Christian newsgroups. ‘Methinks thou doth protesteth too much’. If one were so disdainful of or uninterested in, say, Kentucky Bluegrass music, one would hardly go seeking out every forum peopled by those who love it. No, you doubters and questioners are seeking something you are loathe to admit, even to yourselves. Much like Paul, who once tormented the followers of Christ, you may now serve the will of Satan, but that unease, that quiet yearning that keeps you coming back to these forums, might one day open your eyes. My prayer for you is that it won’t happen too late. sp
Response:
A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. Says who? We have done no harm to God, Yes we have.
You mean it is possible for God to be harmed? Wow. Can He also get sick and die? Imagine how bad off He must be if human sin is actually harmful to Him? why should he harm us? Why should finite sin receive infinite punishment? Dunno, but our sin is not finite. Just as Adam’s wasn’t.
The sin of finite man is infinite? Please explain. Are you saying that all sins are equal? One infinite sin cannot be greater than another infinite sin, can it? Or are only certain sins infinite? If I live for, say, 80 years, and then I die, that’s a finite amount of sin, i.e. 80 years’ worth. Perhaps I should say, why should sin of finite duration suffer punishment of infinite duration? That goes way beyond disproportionate. Even if you argue that the consequences of sin last longer than the time required to commit the sin, the consequences are still finite in duration. That’s what the doctrine of the new heaven and new earth is all about–ending the consequences of sins committed in the old cosmos. Should sins whose consequences do have an end be punished by torments that do not have an end? That would be grossly unjust. Mortal man can no more merit eternal torment than he can merit eternal bliss. There is only being with God or being without Him. Being without Him is Hell. The in-between is this mortal life.
How can you "be without" a God who is omnipresent? If there is no place where God is not, how can you be sent to a place God isn’t in? Grace, by definition, is given to those who do nothing to deserve it. If God gives grace to some, but not to others, on the basis of what they have done, then it is no longer grace. To say that you have to do something (e.g. believe) to receive God’s grace is to deny that what you receive is really grace. Believing is not "doing something". It’s not a work.
When a believer believes, who is it that is doing the believing? I think you must agree that it is the believer that does the believing. So it is not correct to say that believing is not doing something. It is doing the believing. It is active, not passive. It is done by the believer, not to the believer. The reformers got a lot of mileage out of playing with the word "works". If you read Paul’s writings in context, you can see that the "works" he was thinking of were the works of the Law of Moses (circumcision, etc). Luther broadened the term to include all that the believer actively does on his own behalf, more or less overlooking the fact that believing itself is an act done by the believer on his own behalf. Like prayer, it may be a mental act rather than a physical one, but it is an act nonetheless. I’m sure if someone claimed that you had to pray to get into the kingdom of heaven, you’d acknowledge this as salvation "by works," thus recognizing that mental acts fit in the category of "works" just as well as physical acts do. By the way, have you noticed that baptism, unlike believing, does not fit into the category of "things done by the believer on his own behalf"? Baptism is done *to* the believer, not by the believer. The believer is passive, not active. He receives the baptism, he does not perform it. And, did you notice, the Bible says "baptism now saves you"? Just thought you might like to compare your own beliefs with what was originally taught, believed, and practiced in the early Christian church. :) m
Response:
A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. Says who? We have done no harm to God,
Yes we have. why should he harm us? Why should finite sin receive infinite punishment?
Dunno, but our sin is not finite. Just as Adam’s wasn’t. Mortal man can no more merit eternal torment than he can merit eternal bliss.
There is only being with God or being without Him. Being without Him is Hell. The in-between is this mortal life. Our influence is too circumscribed, our works too insignificant. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace! Grace, by definition, is given to those who do nothing to deserve it. If God gives grace to some, but not to others, on the basis of what they have done, then it is no longer grace. To say that you have to do something (e.g. believe) to receive God’s grace is to deny that what you receive is really grace.
Believing is not "doing something". It’s not a work. God has more than enough grace to forgive every human soul, believer or not. To refuse grace to some while giving it to other equally-undeserving souls is pure spite. "Amazing" is not the word I would use.
Obviously. Harro.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Silas! What I find amusing, if not amazing, is all these so-called non-believers, atheists, anti-Christians & evolutionist so regularly frequent and fervently post in all the Christian newsgroups. What I find amusing and or amazing is that your comment has nothing to do with what I said (which was, in fact, a lighthearted joke). Of course, the fact that you’re talking about all the atheists in Christian newsgroups on a thread started by a theist, crossposted to alt.atheism, is a little funny, too.
TruthHunter a "theist"?!?!?! Surely you jest. ‘Methinks thou doth protesteth too much’. If one were so disdainful of or uninterested in, say, Kentucky Bluegrass music, one would hardly go seeking out every forum peopled by those who love it. And if one wanted to talk calmly and thoughtfully about religious subjects, one wouldn’t crosspost to alt.atheism, now, would one?
A good point. Which is exactly what happened at the start of this thread.
If this post was started by TruthHunter then he is neither a Christian or someone who calmly and thoughtfully talks about religious subjects. He is a hit and run artist who has never shown the slightest interest in the answers provided to his posts. Harro.
Response:
Amazing Grace Yes, Grace is amazing! Of course, Robyn is amazing, too. Ask Jeremy — he’ll tell you 
I love my girls! ALL OF YOU! — Jeremy "MENTAL GIANT kollegge graduate with a PHD in STUPID!" "After all, everybody knows that mumbling obscure, incomprehensible gibberish while waving your hands around cannot possibly accomplish anything; the only way to effect real, dramatical change in this world is to mumble obscured, emotional gibberish into folded hands while keeping your eyes closed." – lynx, alt.atheism
Response:
What I find amusing, if not amazing, is all these so-called non-believers, atheists, anti-Christians & evolutionist so regularly frequent and fervently post in all the Christian newsgroups. ‘Methinks thou doth protesteth too much’. If one were so disdainful of or uninterested in, say, Kentucky Bluegrass music, one would hardly go seeking out every forum peopled by those who love it.
It’s called crossposting. It means, ‘Moron from superstitious newsgroup wants to preach’. No, you doubters and questioners are seeking something you are loathe to admit, even to yourselves.
(grooooooooooooan…) (slumps in chair.. shakes head…) Spanky, please…… I know they brainwashed that idea into your poor childhood brain but they did it because ‘they’ can’t admit there isn’t a god. Much like Paul, who once tormented the followers of Christ, you may now serve the will of Satan, but that unease, that quiet yearning that keeps you coming back to these forums, might one day open your eyes. My prayer for you is that it won’t happen too late.
Perfect ending. You start out with ‘we go to your NG because we want to’, followed with, ‘you really believe our bullshit’, and ending with the threat of being tortured by your love god for all eternity. Warlord Steve BAAWA www.sonic.net/~wooly
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity! A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
But, Didn’t god create sin?
Response:
Hunter), who dwells within a sexual yet finite body, emanated… Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell…
…I found a nut. Alan I do so love to crosspost! I truly, truly do! Yet judging from the choice of groups, That’s really far too few!
Response:
What I find amusing, if not amazing, is all these so-called non-believers, atheists, anti-Christians & evolutionist so regularly frequent and fervently post in all the Christian newsgroups. ‘Methinks thou doth protesteth too much’. If one were so disdainful of or uninterested in, say, Kentucky Bluegrass music, one would hardly go seeking out every forum peopled by those who love it. No, you doubters and questioners are seeking something you are loathe to admit, even to yourselves. Much like Paul, who once tormented the followers of Christ, you may now serve the will of Satan, but that unease, that quiet yearning that keeps you coming back to these forums, might one day open your eyes. My prayer for you is that it won’t happen too late.
A Christian started this bullshit, like he does every time he posts a message, we are not responsible for the newsgroups he crossposted to, so blow it out your ass and stop accusing us atheists for everything you don’t like. — Atomkinder (A)//(E) a.a 1984 Apatriot #(can’t remember)
Response:
What I find amusing, if not amazing, is all these so-called non-believers, atheists, anti-Christians & evolutionist so regularly frequent and fervently post in all the Christian newsgroups. ‘Methinks thou doth protesteth too much’.
Take a look at the list of groups attached to this post and you’ll see that the thread originated in alt.religion.christian and was crossposted to alt.atheism by one of your own. 95% of the posts you see from atheists in Christian newsgroups are responses to messages that were originally crossposted *to* alt.atheism or talk.atheism *from* a Christian newsgroup. There’s a simple solution to that little "problem", Silas. Christians should stop crossposting theistic drivel to atheist newsgroups if they don’t want to see the responses crossposted to theirs. Now, wasn’t that easy? — Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without any proof. ~Ashleigh Montague~ aa# 1898 BAAWA Keeper of the Holy Hand Grenade
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity! A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
Yeah, I recall listening to an evangelist when I was a kid. I was about eight and in the company of a bunch of my peers. This guy was bellowing at us about being sinners. Even at that age, I remember thinking how ridiculous that was. I was amused, actually.
Response:
Followups. In alt.atheism, Jeremiah wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity! A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
More like amazing bullshit, at least in alt.atheism. I’ve set followups so that you won’t be bothered by this (sub-)thread again (hopefully) in the other newsgroups, but really, people — if you’re going to be dumb enough to cross-post in here from Christian newsgroups (or cross-post to Christian newsgroups from alt.atheism), expect responses such as the one below. I’m hopeful mine is at least somewhat polite. :-) It’s in the FAQ, anyway: http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism [1] We are not God’s creation (see [2]). One might quibble about various bits of detail, but it’s clear that we come from our mothers, each and every one of us. In a real sense, Mom is God. (And during one’s younger years, she won’t let you forget it, if she’s any good. ) If one’s lucky, Dad helps out. (In a modern-day family that’s not always a given.) [2] We don’t believe in deities. A proper subset don’t believe deities can exist and that God doesn’t exist. (The rest either haven’t considered the question important enough to turn over in their minds or deliberately leave the question open. In a sense it doesn’t matter whether deities exist or not, if we can’t see ‘em.) [3] "Sinning"? How does one "sin"? There are some real weird issues here, especially since we lack belief (and we also lack hard evidence that deities exist at all). [4] The Genesis story with Adam & Eve is a fable, nothing more. [5] There are a lot of issues as to where we "deserve" to go. In particular, who decides? Since God isn’t a factor as established in [2] (and, if that particular deity does exist, has yet to prove itself to me personally and to atheists in general — note that many atheists used to be Christians until they saw that there was no "there" there), who decides who goes to, as you put it, "HELL"? There’s also the issue as to where "HELL" is — there are a number of places where "Hell" is used but that’s a bit of a joke (and in the FAQ). [6] Forever is a very very very very …. very long time. The current thinking among theoretical physicists is that the Universe will suffer a not-so-glorious heat death in about 50 billion years, and the black holes will slowly evaporate after gobbling everything up. If we’re (?) lucky another Universe might spontaneously create itself; God might manifest itself at that point, but it’s not the kind of Deity one takes to Mother Church. (And that deity might just sit back and watch as another sentient race — if one does arise — makes utter fools of itselves trying to find religion. Assuming it can watch — there are a few issues regarding that, too.) [7] This usage of the term "love" is rather unusual. Jesus was apparently the ultimate sacrificial lamb — but the problem is that one has to buy into the notion that God likes the remnants of sacrificial goats, sheep, etc. in the first place. (The more cynical among us — I among them — would gently suggest that it was a way for the priests to eat, without doing work.) [8] Sending one’s son to die is an interesting expression of "love". I could see doing it out of duty, especially during wartime, but not out of "love". (And one hopes the son has something to say in the matter.) [9] Most likely, Jesus was impaled, not crucified. At least, that’s my understanding. [10] The mechanics of going to "Heaven" or "HELL" have never been clear to me. Sure, the notion of an immaterial soul going up or down, up to "Heaven", down to "HELL", is a more or less traditional one, and if going to "Heaven", the soul’s traditional accoutrements are a harp and a pair of wings, presumably because (a) harp music is supposed to be heavenly [it does sound nice, admittedly], and (b) one has to fly somehow — of course, if one’s immaterial anyway the wings are probably unneeded and more or less useless except as some sort of a combat weapon, and since there’s no strife in "Heaven", the idea of combat is slightly silly. If going to "HELL", the soul has no accoutrements — I guess they have no music in "HELL". :-) The problem is that going up leads to deep space, and going down leads one to the mantle or core of the planet (or, if one goes far enough, the other side and deep space again). Both are impossible to explore, although the former can be at least in theory visited by spacecraft. (The moon is 3.84*10^8 m away. The Universe is 2.82 * 10^26 m in diameter. We’ve barely scratched the surface, as far as visitation goes; if one uses the Earth to represent the Universe in terms of scale, then Pluto orbiting at a radius of about 2.5 * 10^13 m is the wavelength of a gamma ray.) — It’s still legal to go .sigless.
Response:
A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator.
Says who? We have done no harm to God, why should he harm us? Why should finite sin receive infinite punishment? Mortal man can no more merit eternal torment than he can merit eternal bliss. Our influence is too circumscribed, our works too insignificant. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
Grace, by definition, is given to those who do nothing to deserve it. If God gives grace to some, but not to others, on the basis of what they have done, then it is no longer grace. To say that you have to do something (e.g. believe) to receive God’s grace is to deny that what you receive is really grace. God has more than enough grace to forgive every human soul, believer or not. To refuse grace to some while giving it to other equally-undeserving souls is pure spite. "Amazing" is not the word I would use. m
Response:
Amazing Grace
Yes, Grace is amazing! Of course, Robyn is amazing, too. Ask Jeremy — he’ll tell you Sunny
Response:
snip A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
That’s why you fruitcakes hate Evolution so much. It turns your sick myth into pounded shit. Warlord Steve BAAWA www.sonic.net/~wooly
Response:
<snip A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him.
Personally. I came into this world an innocent, a creation of nothing more than biological reproduction. I feel real, and believe myself to exist, hence I think that it is highly unlikely that I am the creation of a mythical human creation (read:god) We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator.
I have never rebelled against the forces of nature/biology that created me. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross.
Let me get this right. This "god" of yours who allegedly created us all, and also responsible for the concept of sin because, in his/her alleged omniscience, he/she is alleged to have created two people who he/she knew would "sin" by eating a perfectly good piece of fruit, and because he/she, knowing this would happen, went ahead with it anyway, knowing that he/she would have to allegedly create a version of him/herself to send to earth to Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
Whoever believes in him/her is certifiably insane.
Response:
What I find amusing, if not amazing, is all these so-called non-believers, atheists, anti-Christians & evolutionist so regularly frequent and fervently post in all the Christian newsgroups. ‘Methinks thou doth protesteth too much’. If one were so disdainful of or uninterested in, say, Kentucky Bluegrass music, one would hardly go seeking out every forum peopled by those who love it. No, you doubters and questioners are seeking something you are loathe to admit, even to yourselves. Much like Paul, who once tormented the followers of Christ, you may now serve the will of Satan, but that unease, that quiet yearning that keeps you coming back to these forums, might one day open your eyes. My prayer for you is that it won’t happen too late. sp
Response:
stuttered a bit, then said…. Amazing Grace Yes, Grace is amazing! Of course, Robyn is amazing, too. Ask Jeremy — he’ll tell you Sunny
LOL!! Grace — EAC Vile Harridan and Deranged Harpy a.a. #1752, BAAWA Knight who Demands Shrubbery! "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur." "Run with wind and weather to the music of the sea All four winds together can’t bring the world to me Chase the wind around the world, I want to look at life.. In the available light!" Rush -=- Available Light
Response:
Hi, Silas! What I find amusing, if not amazing, is all these so-called non-believers, atheists, anti-Christians & evolutionist so regularly frequent and fervently post in all the Christian newsgroups.
What I find amusing and or amazing is that your comment has nothing to do with what I said (which was, in fact, a lighthearted joke). Of course, the fact that you’re talking about all the atheists in Christian newsgroups on a thread started by a theist, crossposted to alt.atheism, is a little funny, too. ‘Methinks thou doth protesteth too much’. If one were so disdainful of or uninterested in, say, Kentucky Bluegrass music, one would hardly go seeking out every forum peopled by those who love it.
And if one wanted to talk calmly and thoughtfully about religious subjects, one wouldn’t crosspost to alt.atheism, now, would one? Which is exactly what happened at the start of this thread. Just trying to point out — atheists aren’t invading your home turf, at least on this thread. This one’s your own housekeeping matter. By the way, I’m not an atheist <pontification snipped Sunny
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity! A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him.
Ok, we’ll grant that for the sake of argument. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator.
Hold it right there! Why does rebelling against our creator mean we deserve hell? Does rebelling against your parents mean you deserve hell? But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross.
So does the god think we deserve hell or not? If it provides a way to avoid hell after we deserve to go there, then clearly it doesn’t think we deserve to go to hell. Can’t it make up its mind? If we deserve it, we deserve it, if we don’t, we don’t. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve.
If we deserve it, then obviously justice is NOT served by avoiding it because we’re not getting what we justly deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
It’s amazing, self contradictory, stupidity, is what it is. — Denis Loubet http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Response:
Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity!
A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity! A better way to look at it, is that we all are God’s creation, who have sinned against Him. We all deserve to go to HELL and remain there forever since we rebelled against our Creator. But God loved us that he provided a way out of our way to HELL, and that way was by sending Jesus to die on the cross. Now whoever believes in Him, will be spared from HELL which we all deserve. Now that is Amazing grace!
sensible2me: Hmmm…… you live in hell when all you think is sin, sin, sin. What happened to live and learn where compassion is born or understandings are built from having to go through the fire. Now that is Amazing grace to have a father who understands your lack of understanding and says I have faith that you will find it in yourself because he himself is created in us. Ahh…. the love, how sweet it is.
Response:
Amazing Grace It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations, in HELL forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we don’t return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE! There you have it ! The truth of Pagan Christianity!
no comment untill now