Christianity QA » Christian Church » Absolute character of Moral Theology
Question:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse:
How so? Scripture only demolishs "false notions" if you happen to believe that particular scripture. And whose scripture are you talking about? Moses’? Jesus’? Mohammed’s? Or perhaps you’re speaking of Krishna’s. Personally, I prefer Buddha’s. The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
All of them just? Slavery is just? Stoning to death women who commit adultry but the man who performs the act with her is just? Having a bear kill 42 children because they teased one of your shaman is just? If that is your idea of being just, please stay away from my children. I don’t want them corrupted. Roger
Response:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
No intelligent person will accept something as true simply because you have stated it to be true. It comes from scripture? Then maybe it was written down by someone a long time ago. We still don’t have to believe it without reason. – Martin Thomas Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. That presumes that your sacred text is actually sacred. Those of us that have been able to regain our powers of reason, after having been brainwashed by the Christian Church to accept whatever it teaches without question, understand that your scriptures are man-made and are not sacred in any sense of the word. It is not God’s fault if you failed to think for yourself from the beginning.
You have yet to establish that your imaginary friend exists in the first place. You might want to do so if you want anyone to take your assertions based on that unsupported premise seriously. I have sacrificed neither reason nor faith, and I have come through victorious.
So why did you decide to abandon reason in favor of primitive superstitions?
Response:
Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong! But God stopped him from carrying it out. So there was no murder of Isaac, in reality.
Do you honestly believe that Abraham actually spoke to GOD? Do you honestly believe that he was "told" to sacrifice his son? Do you honestly believe that one’s "sins" must be "atoned for" by a blood sacrifice of a defenseless animal? Last week, Muslims around the world killed what may have been MILLIONS of animals as sacrifice to "Allah" for their sins. What think you of this? How does slaughtering an innocent lamb or goat make one right with "God?" How can anyone believe that this stupidity was EVER a way of cleansing sins? This is superstition and ignorance! And for me to call it otherwise would be most uncharitable, because I would be adding my voice to the others that continue to befuddle the people and to manipulate their power of reason. Next thing you know, they’ll start believing in casting out devils! (Surely you don’t believe that an alcoholic or a drug abuser is really doing the bidding of a devil–and that if that devil is "cast out," the poor soul that hosted it will suddenly regain their health, do you?) The only solution is to walk away from this superstition, ignorance and priestcraft! Just walk away, and don’t look back.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. Where’s your evidence that this "Lord" exists in the first place, I am that.
How so? or that the Bible is anything more than a book of particularly primitive mythology? That would follow from the premise that God is,
No, it would not. You’re really not doing too well in the logic department. Even were you to demonstrate that some kind of deity exists, this would have no bearing on the accuracy of the contents of any so-called "sacred" writings, whether in the Bible or anywhere else. and I know God is.
And you know that how?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong! But God stopped him from carrying it out. So there was no murder of Isaac, in reality. Do you honestly believe that Abraham actually spoke to GOD? Do you honestly believe that he was "told" to sacrifice his son?
Yes, and yes. Do you honestly believe that one’s "sins" must be "atoned for" by a blood sacrifice of a defenseless animal? Last week, Muslims around the world killed what may have been MILLIONS of animals as sacrifice to "Allah" for their sins. What think you of this? How does slaughtering an innocent lamb or goat make one right with "God?" How can anyone believe that this stupidity was EVER a way of cleansing sins?
The sacrifices of the Old Law were prototypical of the once-for-all Sacrifice of the Lamb of God. They were never intended to take away sins, but to demonstrate the concept of atonement. This is superstition and ignorance! And for me to call it otherwise would be most uncharitable, because I would be adding my voice to the others that continue to befuddle the people and to manipulate their power of reason. Next thing you know, they’ll start believing in casting out devils! (Surely you don’t believe that an alcoholic or a drug abuser is really doing the bidding of a devil–and that if that devil is "cast out," the poor soul that hosted it will suddenly regain their health, do you?) The only solution is to walk away from this superstition, ignorance and priestcraft! Just walk away, and don’t look back.
The only solution is to come to terms with your own fear, prejudice, and ignorance, without compromise. To dare to live in holy Love, no matter what the world thinks about that. That is true courage. You, in putting down the Church, are in the "in" crowd. But that is not the way. The Way is Love. Simply. And Love is absolute.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. Where’s your evidence that this "Lord" exists in the first place,
I am that. or that the Bible is anything more than a book of particularly primitive mythology?
That would follow from the premise that God is, and I know God is.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The point is that Abraham was willing to suspend his own personal judgment of right vs wrong, and simply obey God. And God, for His part, proved faithful. Sir, you are badly deluded. I truly feel sorry for you, because you are a victim of superstition and ignorance. If you could only take a step back, and regain your powers of reason, you would realize that this is nothing more than dangerous myth. To think that anyone could have the approval of the Creator to take an innocent life, is truly bizarre. Truly, bizarre! The Old Testament is full of incidents where humans were supposedly instructed by God to kill those that did not agree with their religious beliefs–INCLUDING THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN. Any sane person would view this and say it was sick, but the priests and ministers continue to pass it down from generation to generation. May I never be in the company of a God such as that.
Do not judge God according to your human understanding. It is easy to find contradictions in the Bible. Then you can dismiss God, and that’s the easy way out. It is far more difficult to love God with your whole heart, your whole mind, your whole soul, and all your strength. May you find right reason and God in her company.
Response:
The point is that Abraham was willing to suspend his own personal judgment of right vs wrong, and simply obey God. And God, for His part, proved faithful.
Sir, you are badly deluded. I truly feel sorry for you, because you are a victim of superstition and ignorance. If you could only take a step back, and regain your powers of reason, you would realize that this is nothing more than dangerous myth. To think that anyone could have the approval of the Creator to take an innocent life, is truly bizarre. Truly, bizarre! The Old Testament is full of incidents where humans were supposedly instructed by God to kill those that did not agree with their religious beliefs–INCLUDING THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN. Any sane person would view this and say it was sick, but the priests and ministers continue to pass it down from generation to generation. May I never be in the company of a God such as that.
Response:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
Where’s your evidence that this "Lord" exists in the first place, or that the Bible is anything more than a book of particularly primitive mythology?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – alt.atheism This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong! But God stopped him from carrying it out. So there was no murder of Isaac, in reality. Oh, so for example adultery in the heart isn’t anywhere near as bad as physical adultery?
I don’t see how that follows. Abraham obeyed God. Abraham didn’t look for a loophole.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong! But God stopped him from carrying it out. So there was no murder of Isaac, in reality. The point is that god had ordered Abraham to commit murder and he was willing to do it. So either murder is not always wrong or god sometimes insists that we be willing to perform immoral acts.
The point is that Abraham was willing to suspend his own personal judgment of right vs wrong, and simply obey God. And God, for His part, proved faithful.
Response:
A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. That presumes that your sacred text is actually sacred. Those of us that have been able to regain our powers of reason, after having been brainwashed by the Christian Church to accept whatever it teaches without question, understand that your scriptures are man-made and are not sacred in any sense of the word.
It is not God’s fault if you failed to think for yourself from the beginning. I have sacrificed neither reason nor faith, and I have come through victorious. The fact that you cross-posted your message to so many newsgroups unmasks you as nothing more than a silly TROLL, with a pushy Christian agenda of dictating what is orthodox to everyone else.
The fact of the cross-post was dictated only by the previous cross-post that this is a response to. Fortunately, your numbers are decreasing, as science shines its light upon your superstitions, exposing them as the silly fairy tales that they really are.
I am not a fairy tale. I am real. You bible thumpers are not only in darkness yourselves, but you will do whatever is required to try to keep others in ignorance and superstition, too. Fortunately, we live in a time when mankind is able to receive other points of view, without them having first been censored by people like you. Your psychologically-destructive myths of "original sin," the "virgin birth" and "blood atonement" are not going over too well in this new, free, open environment.
I am neither a Bible-thumper nor a censor. And fortunately for the whole world, I have not been overcome by the popular superstition that God is wrong. The fact is that, to be a Christian, one must set aside the powers of reason that his Creator gave him, and accept the teachings of foolish men that wear strange robes and practice silly rituals. Even among Christians there is no consensus as to which of these teaching or rituals will result in gaining access to "heaven." One denomination preasches "salvation through faith," while another teaches that "good works" are necessary. The Protestants do not accept the same books as do the Catholics as their scripture. The Eastern Orthodox have even more canonical books than do the Catholics and Protestants. And the Mormons have an additional collection of scriptures as found in their book of Mormon. To paraphrase Thomas Paine, "Each denomination accuses the other of unbelief, but for my part I DISBELIEVE THEM ALL!"
That is your perogative of course. For me it is not a matter of proving another’s point of view wrong. Love, is supreme. Love unites rather than divides. And Love will conquer the world, and dissolve all opposition to Love. My message is that Love is the absolute in Moral Theology, and when human beings come to realize that, they naturally seek to obey God.
Response:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
Another "fool for god" comes to alt.atheism with his ancient myths and expects to convert the heathens. LOL. — Woden "religion is a socio-political institution for the control of people’s thoughts, lives, and actions; based on ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
Response:
A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread.
That presumes that your sacred text is actually sacred. Those of us that have been able to regain our powers of reason, after having been brainwashed by the Christian Church to accept whatever it teaches without question, understand that your scriptures are man-made and are not sacred in any sense of the word. The fact that you cross-posted your message to so many newsgroups unmasks you as nothing more than a silly TROLL, with a pushy Christian agenda of dictating what is orthodox to everyone else. Fortunately, your numbers are decreasing, as science shines its light upon your superstitions, exposing them as the silly fairy tales that they really are. You bible thumpers are not only in darkness yourselves, but you will do whatever is required to try to keep others in ignorance and superstition, too. Fortunately, we live in a time when mankind is able to receive other points of view, without them having first been censored by people like you. Your psychologically-destructive myths of "original sin," the "virgin birth" and "blood atonement" are not going over too well in this new, free, open environment. The fact is that, to be a Christian, one must set aside the powers of reason that his Creator gave him, and accept the teachings of foolish men that wear strange robes and practice silly rituals. Even among Christians there is no consensus as to which of these teaching or rituals will result in gaining access to "heaven." One denomination preasches "salvation through faith," while another teaches that "good works" are necessary. The Protestants do not accept the same books as do the Catholics as their scripture. The Eastern Orthodox have even more canonical books than do the Catholics and Protestants. And the Mormons have an additional collection of scriptures as found in their book of Mormon. To paraphrase Thomas Paine, "Each denomination accuses the other of unbelief, but for my part I DISBELIEVE THEM ALL!"
Response:
alt.atheism – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong! But God stopped him from carrying it out. So there was no murder of Isaac, in reality.
Oh, so for example adultery in the heart isn’t anywhere near as bad as physical adultery? — "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You." – Attrib: Pauline Reage. Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion? See: <http://www.Video2CD.com. 35.00 gets your video on DVD. all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read. ** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong! But God stopped him from carrying it out. So there was no murder of Isaac, in reality.
The point is that god had ordered Abraham to commit murder and he was willing to do it. So either murder is not always wrong or god sometimes insists that we be willing to perform immoral acts.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, How does a verse from scripure suffice to demolish anything except the credibility of scripture? and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. So slavery is right and just? Corporate punishment is right and just? "Thou shalt not kill" is right and just.
But you stated that ALL the precepts of the Lord are right and just. "Thou shalt not steal" is right and just.
Unless it’s a man’s person you’re stealing, and then it’s OK? ## We always make God our accomplice ## so we may legalize our own iniquities.
Response:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
Apparently the concept that the bible is NOT the absolute authority YOU want it to be, is beyond your comprehension. What the bible says, is meaningless to those who do not believe in YOUR version of religion. What the bible says is contradicted by the fact that there are many contradictions in that very same bible. Your argument, using the bible, is self-defeating because the FACT that many christians do NOT follow the exact words of the bible, exactly the same way, shows that there ARE inconsistencies in morals. The ignorance is blatant even in the quote you use … the "commands" are not always clear … and the precepts are not always just! Stating that "Thou shalt not kill (murder) … while telling Moses to completely wipe out – to the last woman and child – a whole tribe JUST because they are there, and don’t believe, … is NOT "just" .. and is, most definitely, MURDER! Take your brainless fanaticism and shove it!
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, How does a verse from scripure suffice to demolish anything except the credibility of scripture? and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. So slavery is right and just? Corporate punishment is right and just?
"Thou shalt not kill" is right and just. "Thou shalt not steal" is right and just.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just. Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong!
But God stopped him from carrying it out. So there was no murder of Isaac, in reality.
Response:
alt.atheism This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
Oh wonderful. All you have to do now is demonstrate the existence of a God and then show that notions of right and wrong necessarily derive from it. — "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You." – Attrib: Pauline Reage. Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion? See: <http://www.Video2CD.com. 35.00 gets your video on DVD. all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read. ** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
Response:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
Response:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion,
How does a verse from scripure suffice to demolish anything except the credibility of scripture? and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
So slavery is right and just? Corporate punishment is right and just? ## An honest god is the noblest work of man….
Response:
This is a response to the thread, "There is NO Consistency in Morals–NO "Objective Right From Wrong," without getting involved in that thread. A simple verse from Scripture will suffice to demolish that false notion, and it will provide a simple start for the discussion in this thread. Here is the verse: The Command of the Lord is clear, enlightening the eye. The precepts of the Lord are right, all of them just.
Well, if murder is always wrong, why did god insist that Abraham be willing to kill his son. It must not always be wrong!
no comment untill now