Christianity QA

Question:

HOWEDY David, Try to untangle this mess. tracy is a liar and dog abuser unequaled by any other dog abuser we got here, except lyingdogDUMMY:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tracy Your reply made me wonder, do you really think it is necessary that the parents of a litter be succesfull show dogs and have other merits as well? No, lots of very wonderful, healthy dogs that conform to the breed standard or are outstanding performers, or have wonderful genetic potential (with the right cross) have never seen the inside of a show ring for one reason or other. However, a show record indicates that the *breeders* are involved with the breed and are somewhat knowledgeable about the standard If the parents are healthy, have normal temperaments, and have been shown at least once or twice so you know they conform to the standard, wouldn’t that be enough? Not necessarily, although it’s a good start. The breeder must be knowledgeable about the genetics of the breed, too. Here’s an example – Australian Cattle Dogs have a real problem with an eye condition called Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA). It’s a double-recessive trait that causes partial or total blindness. There is a genetic test for it now, and there are three possible "patterns": Pattern A, which is a double dominant non-affected (AA), Pattern B (most common), which is what they call homozygous non-affected (Aa), and Pattern C, which is double recessive affected (aa). Upon breeding, each parent supplies one, not both, genes. So, if you cross a Pattern A (AA) with a Pattern B (Aa), theoretically, half the puppies will be Pattern A (AA) and half will be Pattern B (Aa). Crossing two Pattern B’s should yield 25% pattern A, 50% pattern B and 25% pattern C. Crossing a pattern B with a Pattern C will give you 50% Pattern B’s and 50% Pattern C’s. Crossing two pattern C’s will yield ALL pattern C’s. I have a lovely show champion male here who is a Pattern C affected (aa). He was removed from his breeder’s breeding program for that reason. If he were crossed on a pattern A female, none of the puppies would have PRA, but they would pass the recessive gene on to half their offspring. But breeding him to another C or to a B would be a disaster. This test, by the way, costs more than $260 per dog. So, his show record does not prove his breed-worthiness. I believe he *is* breedworthy, but only to the right female. That said, I’m not a breeder, nor do I ever plan to be one! Every breed has some sort of genetic faults. Responsible breeders try to breed out the faults while maintaining the good stuff in the gene pool. But if a person just puts two dogs together who may be in good health and who match the standard, they may wind up scattering genetic faults to the four winds. After all, if only the dogs with the best merits were bred that would make the genepool a bit smaller, and that isn’t a good thing i would think. Yep… that’s the balancing act that a good breeder performs. Every breed needs a certain amount of genetic diversity to maintain quality in the immune system, breeding vigor and numerous other characteristics. But there’s no doubt that the ACD can and will be improved by losing that recessive gene that causes PRA. Careful breeding can achieve that, but we’re a long way away from it since it is present in about 72% of the population. That said, there are outstanding field-bred labs that couldn’t win a championship if their lives depended on it, but they’re breedworthy for their temperaments and abilities. Same for herding ACDs. But still, they should be subjected to the same genetic testing and careful crossing to improve the breed. Two healthy parents aren’t always enough. BTW, even though my dog tests as genetically PRA affected, he’s now 4 years old with no sign of vision impairment. I will be taking him to a veterinary opthalmologist every year to have him evaluated. If he hadn’t had the test, we wouldn’t even KNOW he was affected, and the breeder may well have bred him to another Pattern C affected and carry forth the trait into the next generation. That’s what I was getting at in my post. Kind Regards, Tracy

Response:

HOWEDY David,

"New genes"?  Dogs pretty much have an equal number of genes, critter to critter.  Alleles, well, that’s a different story.

Alleles well that ends well, David. I didn’t want to get all pedantic,

Go right ahead, David. You’re dealin with a second degeneration dog abuser. but while it would be appropriate to use the word "alleles"

All is not as it appears here abHOWETS, David. You’re dealin with predominantely liars and dog abuser and cowards and mental cases who’ll do and say anyting to defend their alleged right to hurt and kill dogs as they’ve done for decades.  in the above situation, it would also be appropriate to use "genes" as a synonym.

HOWE do you tell a girl hormone from a boy hormone? Look in it’s genes. I was assuming that I was talking to people who probably had minimal science background here and I was hoping to make the post understandable.

Oh. That was your mistake. Most of HOWER dog lovers are university trained descarteans who’ll hurt and kill dogs and lie abHOWET it. I don’t see what’s so all-fired great about diversity for its own sake  when the possible choices are 1 healthy allele and a multitude of defective alleles. Why would a mixed breed be more likely to have a "defective"

allele? Your arguments are correct, David. HOWEver, it’s lost in this venue. HOWER DOG LOVERS WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO DEFEND THEIR ALLEGED RIGHT TO HURT AND KILL DOGS. Generally, most crippling genetic diseases are recessive in nature, therefore introducing wild-type genetic material decreases the likelihood of a dog expressing the undesired phenotype.

INDEED. That’s pretty much put HOWER ETHICKAL BREEDERS HOWETA BUSINESS. Wouldn’t it.  As you pointed out, genes are just genes, and dogs just have a random variety.  So my question is, why do you think that a purebred will have better "genes"?

Very good, David. The Puppy Wizard’s question is HOWE COME you’d try to discuss these issues with lyin dog abusing Punk Thug Cowards who intentionally hurt and kill dogs and lie abHOWET it? I also don’t see what’s so all-fired great about lobbing in great gobs of unknown DNA Of course, its not great gobs of unknown DNA, its DNA that came from another dog.  And the great thing, as I mentioned above, is that it reduces the chances of the dog in question expressing recessive phenotypes.

RIGHT. But that’d put the ETHICKAL BREEDERS HOWETA BUSINESS. Wouldn’t it, David? with no clear understanding of the process beyond "diversity Good, uniformity Bad".

Ethickal breeders might just be a OXYMORON, eh David? Unfortunately for your argument, in genetics that mantra actually  holds some water.  Uniformity is a disaster.  Some animals have evolved towards your seeming ideal of asexual production, but most critters on this planet have gone the route of sexual

reproduction. INDEEDY. HOWER dog lovers are F’d. Do you know why?

Cause guys like you and Soup and The Puppy Wizard and all HIS FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual Students have EXXXPOSED them as liars, dog abusers, cowards, punks, and mental cases.  Its not just because sex is fun,

Here we’ve got lots of folks who don’t think sex with dogs is fun. They call that animal abuse. They call jerkin and choking and shocking dogs and locking them in boxes to train them LOVE. What kinda society have we developed into? its because diversity is *healthy*

NO. Here we want everyWON to do the same as they’ve been doin so noWON LOOKS like an animal abuser or liar or mental case. It’s what’s called a CONSPIRACY, led by HOWER Master Of Deception blankman and HOWER ethickal breeder and knowledgeable trainers and university behaviorists. In fact, I’d argue that UKNOWN=Bad, far beyond the problems of homozygosity.

There she goes again callin folks names. That’s a ad hominum attack. How is it unknown?

You’ll be AMAZED at the UNKNOWNS HOWER dog lovers own. You mix two dogs together, regardless of breed, and the resulting puppy has some genes from the father and some from the mother.

AMAZING!  Aren’t purebreds in general more sickly than their mixed counterparts?

WON might think, just lookin at pupulations of feral / kennel dogs. No, but thanks for playing.

You gotta realize you’re dealin with pathological liars here abHOWETS, David. From

http://www.petsmart.com/cat/answers/natural_health/articles/article_6… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "To fix a given characteristic into a breed (so that it will breed true, that is, reappear consistently), selected brothers and sisters must be mated, or a parent crossed with its offspring. Such intensive inbreeding might ensure the desired trait, but it might also perpetuate basic weaknesses in the line, such as poor resistance to disease, low stamina, low intelligence, birth defects and inherited diseases that include hemophilia or deafness" Is this wrong?

You can’t have a honest rational DISS-CUSSION with a liar dog abuser and mental case, David.   Do you have any statistics that show that purebreds are

healthier? INDEEDY… they’ll lie abHOWET it.  I doubt it.

Of curse. I’m sure that a daughter bred to her father makes pretty and pure children, but is this really in the best interests of the dogs in question?

All depends on what’s in the genes. You mean it might affect their morals?  Their chance at Heaven? Of course not, don’t be silly.

You won’t be gettin no straight answers from HOWER dog lovers, David.  I meant in terms of their health.

Hey? Don’t you freakin GET IT, David? You’re talkin to a liar and dog abuser a coward and a mental case with many years HISTORY OF ABUSING DOGS, TO DEFEND. Do you think that incest is taboo because of some random

Christian book? Well, it’s pretty common here abHOWETS, David. See "family bed."  Think again, its a fairly uniform taboo across all cultures,

Not here. and it is routed in the experience that you need at least some diversity when reproducing, and incest simply doesn’t provide

it. Oh. NO PROBLEMO. We KILL those dogs that don’t make the cut. Look at the royalty in Europe for a case study in the effects of

inbreeding. Look at these dog abusers killin dogs that don’t suite their critteria? I find it shocking that people who claim to love dogs are inflicting this upon the very animals they adore.

INDEEDY. You ain’t seen NUTHIN yet, David. David

Ever heard of The Puppy Wizard’s SYNDROME? Everything we’ve been taught about dog behavior is DEAD WRONG.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age. I do not know what started the problem  but he came aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone and could play with any dog.  He was well socialized ad I took him with me everywhere. At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens Test except he could let me leave him.  I had used clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but it was not working on his aggression problem. I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet, trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse. They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated and tried to climb on my head to help him.  they then suggested a shock collar I knew  this approach was not working as he was becoming more aggressive. I took him to an animal behaviorist with  Ph.D. 400 miles away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book on the fearful canine.  I tried another trainer who tried to use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse. I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed have the people stop until he could get in control using treats, and work on clicker training. At that point I knew more about clicker training and using the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working–he would not come when I called him and would run away when I tried to catch him.  I was afraid to walk him even in the neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who hasn’t trained her dog" I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said I should give up on him and kill him but they would say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are responsible for him."

You got LUCKY, Linda… They coulda got Sunshine DEAD on us. Damned near did… too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As last resort I tried the internet again–I had had on going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog. He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could not believe him even when I downloaded the manual. The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End. I had been working for 18 month! Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy"  Next I tried the can when walking him–when he saw a dog three blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the can sound and he looked at me like uhn? I used it three more times and we got to the other dog- -the looked at me wagging his tail–the

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