Christianity QA » Christian Bible » Indict Antonio for defamation of Reno's character?
Question:
They had custody under the LAW (11th Circuit ruling). The Executive Branch had no legal authority to order them to return the child to his father. Lacking such authority, it resorted to illegal force.
There were no laws broken in the rescue of Elian as you’ll find out soon enough. "Primus in orbe deos facit timor" (Fear created the first gods in the world) Caecilius Statius (220-168 B.C.)
Response:
They had custody under the LAW (11th Circuit ruling). The Executive Branch had no legal authority to order them to return the child to his father. Lacking such authority, it resorted to illegal force. There were no laws broken in the rescue of Elian as you’ll find out soon enough. "Primus in orbe deos facit timor" (Fear created the first gods in the world) Caecilius Statius (220-168 B.C.)
From a different perspective.. If a woman had fled to cuba with her son, and died on her way to cuba, and her son was rescued by cubans and brought to cuban soil. Would Castro’s regime send that son back to the USA? sidebar: It has been suggested that Castro threatened to release felons from his prisons and send them to the usa if we did not return elian..and clinton succumbed to that threat. Paula
Response:
There were no laws broken in the rescue of Elian as you’ll find out soon enough.
And how, pray tell, will I find that out? — Bill Nourse Memphis, Tennessee USA http://personal.mem.bellsouth.net/~nourse "To those who were robbed of life: the unborn, the weak, the sick, the old, during the dark ages of madness, selfishness, lust and greed for which the last decades of the twentieth century are remembered . . . " — C. Everett Koop, MD
Response:
They had custody under the LAW (11th Circuit ruling). The Executive Branch had no legal authority to order them to return the child to his father. Lacking such authority, it resorted to illegal force. There were no laws broken in the rescue of Elian as you’ll find out soon enough.
One can tell that Z2K’s words were written by one too ignorant to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal. The raid most certainly was quite illegal. Rev. sTeve Winter — Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.onenessapostolic.org for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Response:
What is Mr. Winter’s "modus operandi"? Steve Winter posts lengthy duplicate messages stating his positions, often simply reposting verbatim his scriptural citations with no supporting exegesis. These messages are usually massively cross-posted, without regard to whether or not the message is on topic for the group. A careful examination of these posts will see that many are simply "cut and paste" work from files on his website. With the cancellation of his GTE.NET account, Mr. Winter’s posting volume had decreased dramatically. Now that his ISP (Chudys) has NetNews access, the volume has returned to previous levels. Through it all, he has not changed his style or methods, and continues to issue threats against ISP’s and individuals. In the past, Mr. Winter has harassed numerous groups, including soc.religion.quaker, uk.religion.* and christnet.*, so badly that the Christnet groups and the uk.religion.* groups went moderated, aus.religion.christian is now retro-moderated (against cross-posting outside of the aus groups), the Quakers considered but rejected moderation, and the promisekeepers group has recently been created as a moderated group in the soc.religion heirarchy. If anyone questions Mr Winter or his theolgy, he responds by: Calling the person a "Lying, dirt, false Christian scum," or some variation thereof. Posting a slightly modified version of his "Acts 2:38" posting, or one of his other "canned" responses. He modifies them just enough to avoid the SPAM detectors. He seems to have about 10 to 12 different ones. See item 109 below. If the person sends him email to try and debate the issue, he sends a "do not ever email me again" message. Similarly, any attempt to discuss his abuse of newsgroups is treated similarly. He claims to save such email in an "evidence file" for later prosecution. In several cases, he sent a harassment complaint based on a single email. On occasion, he skips this step and goes to step 4. He emails and or calls the service provider or employer of the person who disagrees with him to have their account pulled or service cut off. He attempted this with me both by calling my company and by calling my service provider. In both cases, he was more or less laughed at. My ISP did not require me to take any action at all. Several correspondents have reported similar action by Mr Winter, including emails and calls to employers. In most cases, fortunately, no action was taken. In others, employees have been asked to remove signature lines that reflected on the company, etc. Mr Winter seems to prefer silencing his opposition to actually trying to win debates. If he does not get satisfaction, he either makes harassing phone calls (several people have reported this, and I have experienced it personally) or begins posting hate-filled falsehoods to newsgroups about the person. If he is unsuccessful in the above, in at least one case he has resorted to an attempt to extort $50,000 from the employer of one of his opponants. He has also resorted to posting false and defamatory statements about the employer on investement and other groups. He has claimed to have filed numerous police reports and made complaints to the FBI in an attempt to silence those who disagree with his methods and/or theology. It does not appear that any action has been taken by any law enforcement agency on his behalf. Mr Winter has been repeatedly asked for case numbers or the names of the law enforcement professionals involved, but has never given any evidence at all that his claims are true. In addition, Mr. Winter has claimed to have written several letters to Senator Jesse Helms. Recently, he has claimed that he received a phone call from Senator Helms office saying that they were looking into his child pornography allegations. A copy of the FAQ has been sent to Senator Helms. This appears to be his current choice of tactics, since he was quite unsuccessful in his recent lawsuit against Concentric. In numerous cases, Mr Winter eihter filed lawsuits or threatened ISP’s with lawsuits. See section 104 for details of actual and threatened lawsuits. Harassment of regional Newsadmins. Several Regional News administrators who enforce the charters of their regional NON-USNET groups report getting email and phone calls from irate users who claim that they received email from net. What kinds of tricks does Mr Winter pull? When Mr Winter is kicked out of a group (eg alt.org.promisekeepers), he tries to use that as a way of harassing people. For example, when the aforementioned group set up an anti-crosspost bot, he posted to other groups, but set the followups to include a.o.p. This would cause replies to his posts to be autocancelled. Mr Winter also would post to 10 or 15 "Big 8" and regional groups, but set followups for one "alt" group which did not have good propagation. If the reply was restricted to 1 or 2 "on-topic" groups, he would put back all of the off-topic groups and again restrict followups. In recent times, he has begun to honor follow-ups in the aus.* groups, and occasionally in his usual cross-post lists, though he (understandably) often removes alt.fan.steve-winter from his posts. Late last fall, Mr Winter began issuing cancel messages for "NoCeM" posts in alt.nocem.misc. The purpose of the "NoCeM" posts is to allow those who do not wish to see any of Mr Winter’s posts to have them automatically ignored by their newsreader. His cancels were the proximate cause, along with his SPAM of the fl.* newsgroups for PSI blocking his NNTP access. He has solicited an attorney in misc.legal to represent him in a lawsuit against those sites and users who post the "NoCeM" articles.Mr Winter’s claim that NoCeM posts are censorship are patently false, in that nothing is cancelled, and they are used only by those who want to use them. They do not remove his articles nor interfere with his articles movement from one system to another. Since Mr. Winter’s current UseNet access does not allow him to issue cancels, he has ceased doing so. It remains to be seen what will happen if he regains full NNTP UseNet access. Where has Mr Winter been banned? Mr Winter has, at one time or another, been removed/banned/cancelled or had submissions rejected by the following groups/networks/ISP’s: FIDO net 3 Netcom 4 Concentric Network (cris.com) 5 AT&T ( Worldnet.att.net) 6 Nando.net 7 PSI Net (NNTP acccess blocked) 8 RIME, ILink & Intelec networks (for flames, personal attacks and harassment) 9 GTE Networks (for net abuse)10 IBM.NET (for net abuse)11 alt.org.promisekeepers (robo-cancelled for excessive x-posting, new moderated soc group created) soc.religion.christian.bible-study (some posts rejected due to charter violations) christnet.* (became 100% moderated due to his harassment) uk.religion.christian aus.religion.christian (retromoderated against cross-posts outside aus.religion due to his harassment) atl.* fl.* (robo-cancelled for excessive SPAM, off-topic post, failure to follow charters, etc.) ga.* Note also that he may have or may in the future obtain new accounts from these providers/networks. This list is only meant to show a history of his accounts, not give a list of where he does or does not have access at any given moment. Why has Mr Winter been banned? He was TOSed (TOS=Terms of Serice – ie kicked off for violating the rules of the provider) from Netcom, Concentric Networks, PSI and GTE Networks, and the same appears to be true for AT&T Worldnet and Nando. The newsgroups banned him either for excessive cross-posting or failure to abide by the Charter, or both. In the case of the Bible Study group, he refused to refrain from making personal attacks on other members of the group. His theology was never an issue, and anyone who examines the content of the Bible Study (see www.dejanews.com for soc.religion.christian.bible-study) group will see that opinions from every side of an issue are permitted, so long as the Charter is followed. There have been several lengthy debates on Oneness and Acts 2:38 in the group, with a couple of Mr. Winter’s BBS moderators taking part.. Mr Winter claims that Charters have no force and he is not bound by them. If he would agree to abide by the Charter, his posts whould be welcomed. Footnotes 1. Verified in "ProPhone 1996" from Selectphone, and backed up by "whois" information from the NIC. The ProPhone database lists his name, address & phone number, and the SIC code (5734B – Computer Parts sales) for his business. The listing is for "Steve and Nancy Winter" – his wife’s name can be verified by looking at his PRIME signup kit and seeing her name listed as a moderator. I do NOT give his address or phone number because I’m not interested in invading his privacy or helping anyone else to do so. 2. Reported via email and netnews postings by several persons. 3. Reported via email and netnews postings by several persons. It has been reported that he is once again on FIDO net. Apparantly he has twice been kicked off, but by threatening lawsuits forced his way back in. 4. Reported by Netcom administrators in UseNet posts. Verified by his lawsuit against Netcom, as posted on his own web page. 5. Verified by his lawsuit against Concentric, as posted on his own web page. 6. Verified by his ‘Formal Complaint Against ATT’, as posted on his own web page. 7. Verified by his ‘The Nando Lawsuit’, as posted on his own web page. 8. Verfied by his lawsuit threat and postings on his CancelWatch page. 9. Reported via email and netnews postings by several persons. 10. Verified by his letters to Sen. Jesse Helms and the NC Attorney General’s office, as displayed on his web page, and by postings to UseNet from a member of GTE.NET’s staff. 11. Verified by his letter to Sen. Jesse Helms, as displayed on his web page.
Response:
[snip] Perhaps Elian’s father believed that "family values" was the American way and the child would be returned without question. Elian’s grandparents attempted to bring Elian back to Cuba in January, but due to the miami relatives this was not to be. No, the grandmothers actually confided that they wanted to defect themselves!
Actually, this was claimed of only one of them, and even there, it was the Miami folks making the claim, not the grondmother herself. [snip] The Cuban relatives ignored US law and there were no other choices. They continually changed the terms & conditions in having the child returned to his father. Which law are you talking about?
That you have no clue is telling. 8 U.S.C. 1182. Cheers, — Arne Langsetmo Before you buy.
Response:
Why didn’t the miami relatives return this kidnapped child to his father in Cuba? Since they did not do this, they too are kidnappers. Because they had been granted temporary custody by the 11th Circuit, a court of LAW, pending an appeal.
Nope. The Eleventh Circuit did no such thing. In fact, the Eleventh Circuit has refused pretty much every motion to get involved with the custody, and has limited their rulings (which so far have only been injunctions and an order allowing Juan Miguel Gonzalez to intervene) to the issue that is before the court: Should Elina be given an asylum hearing. And that issue they haven’t decided yet, contrary to those that like to claim that. As the court said: "No one should feel confident in predicting the eventual result in this case." [snip] The Cuban relatives ignored US law and there were no other choices. They continually changed the terms & conditions in having the child returned to his father. They had custody under the LAW (11th Circuit ruling). The Executive Branch had no legal authority to order them to return the child to his father. Lacking such authority, it resorted to illegal force.
You’re flat-out wrong here: 8 USC Sec. 1182 01/05/99 TITLE 8 – ALIENS AND NATIONALITY CHAPTER 12 – IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY SUBCHAPTER II – IMMIGRATION Part II – Admission Qualifications for Aliens; Travel Control of Citizens and Aliens Sec. 1182. Inadmissible aliens (d) Temporary admission of nonimmigrants . . . (5)(A) The Attorney General may, except as provided in subparagraph (B) or in section 1184(f) of this title, in his discretion parole into the United States temporarily under such conditions as he may prescribe only on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit any alien applying for admission to the United States, but such parole of such alien shall not be regarded as an admission of the alien and when the purposes of such parole shall, in the opinion of the Attorney General, have been served the alien shall forthwith return or be returned to the custody from which he was paroled and thereafter his case shall continue to be dealt with in the same manner as that of any other applicant for admission to the United States. Couldn’t be clearer. Reno has custody, Reno may parole the child to whoever she wants, and she can take that away when she wants. FWIW, immigration law is _extremely_ deferential to the decisions of the Executive, and in many cases even prohibits the judiciary from even having jurisdiction to hear appeals from decisions of the Executive in immigration cases. Go read it. Title 8 of the U.S. Code, or more specifically, start at 8 U.S.C. 1101 et. seq. Cheers, — Arne Langsetmo Before you buy.
Response:
– Stop SPAMMERS on the Internet. Visit Http://www.spamcop.net and follow the instructions! *** All Christians are NOT Disciples, but ALL Disciples ARE Christians *** Galatians 4:16, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" http://home.hawaii.rr.com/bibletruths/stevie.wav Benny Hinn: http://home.hawaii.rr.com/bibletruths/benny.htm Kenneth Copeland: http://home.hawaii.rr.com/bibletruths/copeland.htm Learn what they REALLY BELIEVE! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Steve Winter FAQ, version 2.8, by Steve Adams It is notable that rr.com (a Time Warner<spit company) has knowingly supported Mr. Boggs in his campaign of malicious libel, impersonation, and email harassment. Brian Boggs is one of the more malicious of the false-christian scum on USENET. He does not like being exposed as the slimy little fake that he is, so he just keeps republishing malicious libel by other false-christian dirt. If you want to see what these filth are really upset about, let me show you.. -=( A BASIC DEFECTIVE PREMISE OF THE FALSE CHRISTIAN CULTS )=-
Twisting Acts 2:38 – The Question of Baptism by Water for Salvation Craig Branch One of the most common methods cult leaders use to establish their false doctrine is to employ segmented text attention. That is, isolating verses which on the surface seem to the novice Bible student, to affirm the cult’s doctrine. The "doctrine of demons" (1 Timothy 4:1) seeks to undermine the Person and work of Christ (i.e., a different Jesus and a different gospel, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4). In line with the cult’s false gospel of works as opposed to grace (Romans 11:6), in order to be justified (declared righteous) before God, many cults teach that one of several necessary steps to becoming saved is to be baptized in water. This inevitably removes the focus from Christ’s finished work and imputed righteousness to the individual (faith in Christ alone by grace alone), and subtlety or overtly leads to the conclusion that "official" baptism by and into the cult (the one and only true church) actually will save. Several groups teach baptismal salvation. Among them are Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God, United Pentecostals, and many Churches of Christ. There are about eight main verses that the cults use as proof-texts for their doctrine of baptismal regeneration, but the most popular is Acts 2:38, "And Peter said to them, `Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.’" Notice that on the surface it seems to prove their point, but not when one applies sound principles of interpretation. Remember the question to always ask is, "What does the passage mean", not, "What does it say?". For instance, Jesus seems to say in Luke 14:33 that one cannot be a disciple (Christian) unless he first gives away all his possessions. Obviously we have to interpret the verse in light of the context and in relation to the rest of Scripture. First is the historical context. Jesus and the Gentile converts to Judaism were very familiar with the symbol of baptism for cleansing and separation. It was normal practice (Unger’s Bible Dictionary, p. 122; New Bible Dictionary, Douglas, p. 131). John the Baptist continued the symbol of baptismal cleansing of repentance, but noted there was a baptism which superseded it — that is baptism with the Holy Spirit (Mark 1:8). The grammatical context is also important. A key word in Acts 2:38 for the baptismal salvation proponents is "for"; "baptized… for the forgiveness of sins." They insist that the meaning be interpreted "in order to obtain" the forgiveness of sins. The problem with this insistence is that the word "for" (eis, in Greek) has several connotations in New Testament Koine Greek. Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says that eis is a versatile word which primarily "denotes entrance into, or direction and limit: into, to, toward, for, among," (p. 183). In other words the symbol of baptism could either be pointing towards the cleansing and forgiveness (with reference to), or could pointing to the actual procuring of forgiveness (in order to). Renowned Greek scholar A. T. Robertson states that not only does eis signify "aim or purpose" (in order to) as in 1 Corinthians 2:7, it can just as well mean "on the basis or ground of (with reference to), Matthew 10:41; 12:41. He states that, "the illustrations of both usages are numerous in the New Testament and the Koine (New Testament Greek) generally. "One will decide the use here (Acts 2:38) according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins…" (Word Pictures of the New Testament, pp. 35-36). Why do the overwhelming percentage of Greek scholars agree with Robertson? Because the rest of Scripture refutes baptismal regeneration. All one has to do is read Acts 10, concerning the account of Peter taking the gospel (which saves, Romans 1:16), to Cornelius and the Gentiles. As Peter proceeds through the gospel message (vs. 34-43), the Scriptures relate that the gift of the Holy Spirit was received upon believing by these Gentiles before they were baptized in water (10:44-48; 11:17-18). Additionally, the Scripture teaches that this is the same way all are saved (Acts 11:15-18, 15:7-11).
Response:
Perhaps Elian’s father believed that "family values" was the American way and the child would be returned without question. Elian’s grandparents attempted to bring Elian back to Cuba in January, but due to the miami relatives this was not to be. I’ve heard that Elian’s uncle Lazaro was kicked out of Cuba for homosexual activity.
Do you believe everything the Cuban government says? Rather naive of you… Even if it’s true, that would say more about a regime that considers homosexuality illegal than it would about Lazaro. Clay
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps Elian’s father believed that "family values" was the American way and the child would be returned without question. Elian’s grandparents attempted to bring Elian back to Cuba in January, but due to the miami relatives this was not to be. I’ve heard that Elian’s uncle Lazaro was kicked out of Cuba for homosexual activity. Do you believe everything the Cuban government says? Rather naive of you… Even if it’s true, that would say more about a regime that considers homosexuality illegal than it would about Lazaro. Clay
Actually, it would say that Lazaro is a lot more interesting than I thought…
Response:
Re: Elian Elian’s mother, a NON-custodial parent, kidnapped and took her child to the one place where she thought the authorities couldn’t catch her. She had lost her battle for principal custody long ago back in Cuba. She died in the process and also endangered her son’s life. The child lived with his father six days a week, he was always the main custodial parent. Elian lived almost fulltime with his father, stepmother and baby brother until he was taken last November. His mother nabbed him while on a weekend visitation allowed by the Cuban courts, who had previously denied her full joint custody on fitness grounds.
Out of curiosity, what is your source for this information? Clay
Response:
spake thusly: I believe his real name is Paul Ambro aka ‘Paul Fox’
Nope, sorry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Friends are God’s way of taking care of us." Please help support the hungry: go to http://www.thehungersite.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Elian Elian’s mother, a NON-custodial parent, kidnapped and took her child to the one place where she thought the authorities couldn’t catch her. She had lost her battle for principal custody long ago back in Cuba. She died in the process and also endangered her son’s life. right, but that was her…not the Miami relitives… Why didn’t the miami relatives return this kidnapped child to his father in Cuba? Since they did not do this, they too are kidnappers.
Because that would be like sending a southern slave back to the south if him and his mother escaped to the north. The child lived with his father six days a week, he was always the main custodial parent. then why did he stay in Cuba for over 4 months while Elian was in teh US? Perhaps Elian’s father believed that "family values" was the American way and the child would be returned without question. Elian’s grandparents attempted to bring Elian back to Cuba in January, but due to the miami relatives this was not to be.
No, the grandmothers actually confided that they wanted to defect themselves! I’ve heard that Elian’s uncle Lazaro was kicked out of Cuba for homosexual activity.
Unsubstantiated character attack. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Elian lived almost fulltime with his father, stepmother and baby brother until he was taken last November. His mother nabbed him while on a weekend visitation allowed by the Cuban courts, who had previously denied her full joint custody on fitness grounds. admittinly, i was not aware of the facts concerning Elian’s being taken to the US, but that is non=sequiter to the question of Elian being removed frm the Miami relitives house in Little Havana in the way that he was. Pirate Scott The Cuban relatives ignored US law and there were no other choices. They continually changed the terms & conditions in having the child returned to his father.
Which law are you talking about? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Primus in orbe deos facit timor" (Fear created the first gods in the world) Caecilius Statius (220-168 B.C.)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Elian Elian’s mother, a NON-custodial parent, kidnapped and took her child to the one place where she thought the authorities couldn’t catch her. She had lost her battle for principal custody long ago back in Cuba. She died in the process and also endangered her son’s life. right, but that was her…not the Miami relitives… The child lived with his father six days a week, he was always the main custodial parent. then why did he stay in Cuba for over 4 months while Elian was in teh US? Elian lived almost fulltime with his father, stepmother and baby brother until he was taken last November. His mother nabbed him while on a weekend visitation allowed by the Cuban courts, who had previously denied her full joint custody on fitness grounds. admittinly, i was not aware of the facts concerning Elian’s being taken to the US, but that is non=sequiter to the question of Elian being removed frm the Miami relitives house in Little Havana in the way that he was. Pirate Scott
Agreed Pirate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Primus in orbe deos facit timor" (Fear created the first gods in the world) Caecilius Statius (220-168 B.C.)
Response:
The Steve Winter FAQ, version 2.8, by Steve Adams
It is notable that rr.com (a Time Warner<spit company) has knowingly supported Mr. Boggs in his campaign of malicious libel, impersonation, and email harassment. Brian Boggs is one of the more malicious of the false-christian scum on USENET. He does not like being exposed as the slimy little fake that he is, so he just keeps republishing malicious libel by other false-christian dirt. If you want to see what these filth are really upset about, let me show you.. -=( A BASIC DEFECTIVE PREMISE OF THE FALSE CHRISTIAN CULTS )=- The "believe only" cults are basing their salvation upon the defective premise that the early Christians to whom the original epistles were addressed, "believed" the apostles, but didn’t obey them. Then they are also building upon their defective premise that the apostles accepted as "brethren" folks who refused to obey them. Every time that a deceiving cultist leads a victim to the book of Galatians, or Romans, or Ephesians to "explain" to them why obedience to Acts 2:38 isn’t necessary for salvation; they deceptively ignore the fact that the addressees of the epistles of the Bible were those who had OBEYED the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation. Unless a person BECOMES a Christian, they are NOT even the individuals that epistles containing the benevolent promises are addressed to. It’s as if they are holding a promissory note that is addressed to someone else. They rejoice about its promised value (which is real), but don’t realize that it’s not addressed to them. The benevolent promises of God are only for those who OBEY Him. A brief glance at just a couple of scriptures serves to expose the majority of these cultists. True preachers teach why the Bible needs to be obeyed, while the Satanic cultists like Brian Boggs "proclaim" their "salvation without obedience". The book of Romans shows that a "non-believer" was recognized by "lack of obedience" to the original Apostolic message (Acts 2:38) Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? Deceivers often take verses from Ephesians (a letter to the CHURCH at Ephesus), and ignore the fact that the Ephesian Church was FOUNDED upon the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation. The membership of the Ephesian Church had ALREADY OBEYED Acts 2:38. Notice carefully the founding of the Ephesian church and pay careful attention to Paul adhering faithfully to the Acts 2:38 plan even though John the Baptist had already baptised those individuals. Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. Here also is clear proof in verse 2 that a person doesn’t receive the Holy Ghost just because they "believe". The "believe only" cultists will often teach that lie. Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. When Paul saw that they had not received the Spirit (of Christ), he questioned the validity of their baptism. Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Believers were/are ALWAYS obeyers. Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Folks who had been baptised by John the Baptist himself had to be RE-Baptised in Jesus name in order to become Christians. Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. After obeying Christian baptism they did receive the same Spirit of Christ that the Apostles had received in Acts 2:4. False-christian scum like Brian Boggs are no more "Christian" than my dog is. Rev. sTeve Winter — Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.onenessapostolic.org for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Response:
Why didn’t the miami relatives return this kidnapped child to his father in Cuba? Since they did not do this, they too are kidnappers.
Because they had been granted temporary custody by the 11th Circuit, a court of LAW, pending an appeal. I’ve heard that Elian’s uncle Lazaro was kicked out of Cuba for homosexual activity.
Yes, we’ve "heard" a lot of things about the Miami relatives lately. Couldn’t be the usual whispering campaign of demonization and character assassination by the Klinton-Nero regime, could it? On the other hand, we’ve heard almost nothing about Juan Miguel. I wonder why. The Cuban relatives ignored US law and there were no other choices. They continually changed the terms & conditions in having the child returned to his father.
They had custody under the LAW (11th Circuit ruling). The Executive Branch had no legal authority to order them to return the child to his father. Lacking such authority, it resorted to illegal force. — Bill Nourse Memphis, Tennessee USA http://personal.mem.bellsouth.net/~nourse "To those who were robbed of life: the unborn, the weak, the sick, the old, during the dark ages of madness, selfishness, lust and greed for which the last decades of the twentieth century are remembered . . . " — C. Everett Koop, MD
Response:
Re: Elian Elian’s mother, a NON-custodial parent, kidnapped and took her child to the one place where she thought the authorities couldn’t catch her. She had lost her battle for principal custody long ago back in Cuba. She died in the process and also endangered her son’s life. The child lived with his father six days a week, he was always the main custodial parent. Elian lived almost fulltime with his father, stepmother and baby brother until he was taken last November. His mother nabbed him while on a weekend visitation allowed by the Cuban courts, who had previously denied her full joint custody on fitness grounds.
So how do you know this? -mwb
Response:
I believe his real name is Paul Ambro – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thursday April 27, 2000; 11:38 PM EDT Napolitano: ‘Indict Reno for Kidnapping’ "The federal court had already ruled that [Elian] was lawfully in the house. Why? Because the INS chose Lazaro as the guardian. And the INS designated the place for the boy to live – in Lazaro’s house. Now the INS attempted to change that. But they made the mistake of attempting to change the idenitity of the guardian and the place of the boy’s residence after the application for asylum was made." Napolitano continued: "If they had made that change before Lazaro and Elian filed an application for asylum, they could do it. But once the application for political asylum has been made, the INS loses its power to change the identity of the guardian and the place of residence for the boy." from http://www.newsmax.com – The Real God!, thus spake: Until a person is granted political asylum They are not a U.S. citizen, and can be jailed, or placed _anywhere_ at at any time, at the discretion of the INS. There are many thousands of people held in prisons NOW! under the authority of the INS… awaiting political asylum. Aliens citizens rights are not a given in America. Your "Anarchist/Terrorist" right wing leaders hatred of Clinton and American non-christian controlled jurisprudence has failed again. That _IS_ the function of the (I)migration & (N)aturalization (S)ervice. The Real God! (The sinless one) I dont forgive nothing! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ Wise men stare at the unknown, and boldly! asks, WHY? Others… fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling… ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ — THE PAST — http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion/Faiths_and_Practices/ http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/World/Religion_News/ —- THE FUTURE —- http://www.transhumanism.com/ (-C-I-S-)-Crystal-Information-Soulutions-(-C-I-S-)
Response:
<snip from http://www.newsmax.com – The Real God!, thus spake: Until a person is granted political asylum They are not a U.S. citizen, and can be jailed, or placed _anywhere_ at at any time, at the discretion of the INS.
so the government has the right to break into the house of US citizens armed to the teeth to snatch this child out of the hands who saved him from death? Everyone makes the family out to be some typea horrible group out only to brainwash and kidnap this child. I would worry a lot more about brainwashing with the Cuban government myself. This family kept and cared for this child while the father sat in Cuba for 4.5 months. I’d be rather gracious myself if this were my child instead of painting them as "captors"… There are many thousands of people held in prisons NOW! under the authority of the INS… awaiting political asylum. Aliens citizens rights are not a given in America. Your "Anarchist/Terrorist" right wing leaders
thats a nice, emotional, but not really accurate phrase…the right wing leaders are looking out for the rule of law in this case. The idea that every option was exhusted is nonsence. I still am at a loss to why the father couldn’t go to Miami, the only real demand of the family. I’d be there in a flash if it were my kid…look how quick the family, who cared much for Elian, rushed to DC…just my two cents…Pirate Scott hatred – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of Clinton and American non-christian controlled jurisprudence has failed again. That _IS_ the function of the (I)migration & (N)aturalization (S)ervice. The Real God! (The sinless one) I dont forgive nothing! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ Wise men stare at the unknown, and boldly! asks, WHY? Others… fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling… ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ — THE PAST — http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion/Faiths_and_Practices/ http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/World/Religion_News/ —- THE FUTURE —- http://www.transhumanism.com/ (-C-I-S-)-Crystal-Information-Soulutions-(-C-I-S-)
Response:
If my child had been kidnapped [even if by relatives] and not returned to me upon my request, I would ask a SWAT team to forceably enter the kidnapper’s house and rescue my child and bring him back to me.
Response:
Re: Elian Elian’s mother, a NON-custodial parent, kidnapped and took her child to the one place where she thought the authorities couldn’t catch her. She had lost her battle for principal custody long ago back in Cuba. She died in the process and also endangered her son’s life. The child lived with his father six days a week, he was always the main custodial parent. Elian lived almost fulltime with his father, stepmother and baby brother until he was taken last November. His mother nabbed him while on a weekend visitation allowed by the Cuban courts, who had previously denied her full joint custody on fitness grounds. "Primus in orbe deos facit timor" (Fear created the first gods in the world) Caecilius Statius (220-168 B.C.)
Response:
Re: Elian Elian’s mother, a NON-custodial parent, kidnapped and took her child to the one place where she thought the authorities couldn’t catch her. She had lost her battle for principal custody long ago back in Cuba. She died in the process and also endangered her son’s life.
right, but that was her…not the Miami relitives… The child lived with his father six days a week, he was always the main custodial parent.
then why did he stay in Cuba for over 4 months while Elian was in teh US? Elian lived almost fulltime with his father, stepmother and baby brother until he was taken last November. His mother nabbed him while on a weekend visitation allowed by the Cuban courts, who had previously denied her full joint custody on fitness grounds.
admittinly, i was not aware of the facts concerning Elian’s being taken to the US, but that is non=sequiter to the question of Elian being removed frm the Miami relitives house in Little Havana in the way that he was. Pirate Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Primus in orbe deos facit timor" (Fear created the first gods in the world) Caecilius Statius (220-168 B.C.)
Response:
Re: Elian Elian’s mother, a NON-custodial parent, kidnapped and took her child to the one place where she thought the authorities couldn’t catch her. She had lost her battle for principal custody long ago back in Cuba. She died in the process and also endangered her son’s life. right, but that was her…not the Miami relitives…
Why didn’t the miami relatives return this kidnapped child to his father in Cuba? Since they did not do this, they too are kidnappers. The child lived with his father six days a week, he was always the main custodial parent. then why did he stay in Cuba for over 4 months while Elian was in teh US?
Perhaps Elian’s father believed that "family values" was the American way and the child would be returned without question. Elian’s grandparents attempted to bring Elian back to Cuba in January, but due to the miami relatives this was not to be. I’ve heard that Elian’s uncle Lazaro was kicked out of Cuba for homosexual activity. Elian lived almost fulltime with his father, stepmother and baby brother until he was taken last November. His mother nabbed him while on a weekend visitation allowed by the Cuban courts, who had previously denied her full joint custody on fitness grounds. admittinly, i was not aware of the facts concerning Elian’s being taken to the US, but that is non=sequiter to the question of Elian being removed frm the Miami relitives house in Little Havana in the way that he was. Pirate Scott
The Cuban relatives ignored US law and there were no other choices. They continually changed the terms & conditions in having the child returned to his father. "Primus in orbe deos facit timor" (Fear created the first gods in the world) Caecilius Statius (220-168 B.C.)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thursday April 27, 2000; 11:38 PM EDT Napolitano: ‘Indict Reno for Kidnapping’ "The federal court had already ruled that [Elian] was lawfully in the house. Why? Because the INS chose Lazaro as the guardian. And the INS designated the place for the boy to live – in Lazaro’s house. Now the INS attempted to change that. But they made the mistake of attempting to change the idenitity of the guardian and the place of the boy’s residence after the application for asylum was made." Napolitano continued: "If they had made that change before Lazaro and Elian filed an application for asylum, they could do it. But once the application for political asylum has been made, the INS loses its power to change the identity of the guardian and the place of residence for the boy." from http://www.newsmax.com
— The Real God!, thus spake: Until a person is granted political asylum They are not a U.S. citizen, and can be jailed, or placed _anywhere_ at at any time, at the discretion of the INS. There are many thousands of people held in prisons NOW! under the authority of the INS… awaiting political asylum. Aliens citizens rights are not a given in America. Your "Anarchist/Terrorist" right wing leaders hatred of Clinton and American non-christian controlled jurisprudence has failed again. That _IS_ the function of the (I)migration & (N)aturalization (S)ervice. The Real God! (The sinless one) I dont forgive nothing! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ Wise men stare at the unknown, and boldly! asks, WHY? Others… fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling… ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ — THE PAST — http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion/Faiths_and_Practices/ http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/World/Religion_News/ —- THE FUTURE —- http://www.transhumanism.com/ (-C-I-S-)-Crystal-Information-Soulutions-(-C-I-S-)
no comment untill now