A multiple choice question: The Hebrews originated in Mesopotamia and migrated to Canaan, or portion of which was later called Palestine. The Hebrew patriarchs–Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so prominently depicted in the Old Testament–were chieftains of seminomadic clans that roamed Palestine and occasionaly journeyed to Mesopotamia and Egypt. Some Hebrews journeyed from Canaan to Egypt to settle and become herdsmen and farmers, but they eventually wanted to return to Canaan because: A)  they didn’t like Egyptian food B)  they were afraid of mummies C)  there were too many flies and mosquitoes in the Nile river valley D)  they eventually became forced laborers for the Egyptians, and were fearful of remaining permanent slaves E)  looking at the tall pyramids made them dizzy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I know this one!  It is ‘D’.  I saw that film with Chuck Heston and Yul Brynner too — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A multiple choice question: The Hebrews originated in Mesopotamia and migrated to Canaan, or portion of which was later called Palestine. The Hebrew patriarchs–Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so prominently depicted in the Old Testament–were chieftains of seminomadic clans that roamed Palestine and occasionaly journeyed to Mesopotamia and Egypt. Some Hebrews journeyed from Canaan to Egypt to settle and become herdsmen and farmers, but they eventually wanted to return to Canaan because: A)  they didn’t like Egyptian food B)  they were afraid of mummies C)  there were too many flies and mosquitoes in the Nile river valley D)  they eventually became forced laborers for the Egyptians, and were fearful of remaining permanent slaves E)  looking at the tall pyramids made them dizzy — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A multiple choice question: The Hebrews originated in Mesopotamia and migrated to Canaan, or portion of which was later called Palestine. The Hebrew patriarchs–Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so prominently depicted in the Old Testament–were chieftains of seminomadic clans that roamed Palestine and occasionaly journeyed to Mesopotamia and Egypt. Some Hebrews journeyed from Canaan to Egypt to settle and become herdsmen and farmers, but they eventually wanted to return to Canaan because: A)  they didn’t like Egyptian food B)  they were afraid of mummies C)  there were too many flies and mosquitoes in the Nile river valley D)  they eventually became forced laborers for the Egyptians, and were fearful of remaining permanent slaves E)  looking at the tall pyramids made them dizzy

D/ but I like all the other reasons better. P. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I know this one!  It is ‘D’.  I saw that film with Chuck Heston and Yul Brynner too

You mean the film after which the book was written by…er…benzobrain forgets the author’s name… P. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A multiple choice question: The Hebrews originated in Mesopotamia and migrated to Canaan, or portion of which was later called Palestine. The Hebrew patriarchs–Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so prominently depicted in the Old Testament–were chieftains of seminomadic clans that roamed Palestine and occasionaly journeyed to Mesopotamia and Egypt. Some Hebrews journeyed from Canaan to Egypt to settle and become herdsmen and farmers, but they eventually wanted to return to Canaan because: A)  they didn’t like Egyptian food B)  they were afraid of mummies C)  there were too many flies and mosquitoes in the Nile river valley D)  they eventually became forced laborers for the Egyptians, and were fearful of remaining permanent slaves E)  looking at the tall pyramids made them dizzy

Okay, I’ll admit not knowing the answer to this specific question. Are we still studying Western Civilization, or are we getting into Christian Bible study now? Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A multiple choice question: The Hebrews originated in Mesopotamia and migrated to Canaan, or portion of which was later called Palestine. The Hebrew patriarchs–Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so prominently depicted in the Old Testament–were chieftains of seminomadic clans that roamed Palestine and occasionaly journeyed to Mesopotamia and Egypt. Some Hebrews journeyed from Canaan to Egypt to settle and become herdsmen and farmers, but they eventually wanted to return to Canaan because: A)  they didn’t like Egyptian food B)  they were afraid of mummies C)  there were too many flies and mosquitoes in the Nile river valley D)  they eventually became forced laborers for the Egyptians, and were fearful of remaining permanent slaves E)  looking at the tall pyramids made them dizzy Okay, I’ll admit not knowing the answer to this specific question. Are we still studying Western Civilization, or are we getting into Christian Bible study now?

Arthur, all material comes from a textbook I’m reading called "Western Civilization: Ideas, Politics, and Society". Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A multiple choice question: The Hebrews originated in Mesopotamia and migrated to Canaan, or portion of which was later called Palestine. The Hebrew patriarchs–Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so prominently depicted in the Old Testament–were chieftains of seminomadic clans that roamed Palestine and occasionaly journeyed to Mesopotamia and Egypt. Some Hebrews journeyed from Canaan to Egypt to settle and become herdsmen and farmers, but they eventually wanted to return to Canaan because: A)  they didn’t like Egyptian food B)  they were afraid of mummies C)  there were too many flies and mosquitoes in the Nile river valley D)  they eventually became forced laborers for the Egyptians, and were fearful of remaining permanent slaves E)  looking at the tall pyramids made them dizzy Okay, I’ll admit not knowing the answer to this specific question. Are we still studying Western Civilization, or are we getting into Christian Bible study now? Arthur, all material comes from a textbook I’m reading called "Western Civilization: Ideas, Politics, and Society".

Just checking. Hey, I thought I was the only person who read textbooks for fun. Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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India’s marathon boy, aged three By Sandeep Sahu BBC News, Bhubaneswar Biranchi Das and Budhia Singh Coach Das says Budhia could be a Guinness World Record holder He runs seven hours at a stretch, sometimes as much as 48km (30 miles). On a daily basis. And Budhia Singh is just three and a half years old. When Budhia’s father died a year ago, his mother, who washes dishes in Bhubaneswar, capital of the eastern Indian state of Orissa, was unable to provide for her four children. She sold Budhia to a man for 800 rupees ($20). But the young boy came to the attention of Biranchi Das, a judo coach and the secretary of the local judo association. Mr Das said he noticed Budhia’s talent when scolding him for being a bully. "Once, after he had done some mischief, I asked him to keep running till I came back," Mr Das told the BBC. "I got busy in some work. When I came back after five hours, I was stunned to find him still running." Mr Das, also the president of the residents’ association of the run-down area where Budhia used to live, summoned the man who had bought Budhia and paid him his 800 rupees back. Then started a strict diet and exercise regimen that saw Budhia adding a few kilometres to his daily marathon every few days. In place of a few lumps of rice that he used to get at his mother’s place, he now has a diet of eggs, milk, soybean and meat. He starts running at 0500 each day and does not stop till noon. After a few stretching exercises, he has lunch and goes for a siesta. At 1600 it is time to run again. Budhia is enjoying his stay at the judo hostel. "I can run and eat to my heart’s content here," he says. His speech is not yet easy to understand. Though he has yet to go to school, he has completed learning the alphabet of Oriya, the local language. Budhia’s coach has now set his eyes on a place in the Guinness Book of World Records. That, he says, will be possible when he can run for 90km at a stretch. "I have no doubt whatsoever that he will achieve it soon", Mr Das says.          http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4241958.stm

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WOMEN OF VISION Reclaiming Sadhana: Nourisher of Health Let us practice wholesome activities that allow us to dance within Nature’s cosmic rhythms By Brahmacharini Maya Tiwari Hinduism Today http://www.hinduismtoday.com February 1998 My early life was fostered by wholesome practices that preserved the good Earth — the practices of sadhana. Before my birth, my family moved from the sacred land of India to the isolated land of Guyana. Because Guyana was about one hundred years behind the technological world, we were able to safeguard our ancestral memories through the practice of sadhana. The Sanskrit etymology of the word sadhana comes from the single root ’sadh,’ that bears a multitude of meanings. In its original and whole sense, however, sadhana is the wholesome activities practiced in harmony with the cyclical rhythms of nature. By practicing these activities provided by the universe to sustain salubrious health, my family secured our rhythmic, harmonic sonority with the Divine. For all humans, practice of sadhana is the vital means of accessing cognitive memory — memories gathered through our past lives. Once our cognitive memories are awakened and our remembering self begins to function, we are able to achieve resplendent health. Far away from the homeland of India, my family preserved the practice of sadhana. The land was the hearth of my people’s practice. The Vedic rituals they performed were a living recreation of the sacred, tied as they were to the bounty of the Earth and the sweat of the people. As a result, our cognate wisdom was maintained by the elders who kept these sadhanas alive. In my youth, I listened to family elders tell stories of the Earth practices of my ancestors, the ancestors of India. The Vedic heritage of India and Nepal begins with the story of the ancient sages, called rishis, who lived in Aryavarta, the sacred land of the Himalayas. Here, sadhana as a practice first emerged. These ancient sages experienced the Divine in all activities, assimilated the vibrations of the Divine and transmuted them into their thoughts, thereby bringing forth knowledge in the form of sound. Their primal intention was to cognize the infinite consciousness by communing with nature’s cosmic rhythms, bonding with the trees, herbs, rivers, animals — all of life. Within each finite form they recognized the infinite. From there, they ascended to cognize the absolute Divine Love found equally in all things. Through their sadhana, they sustained land, water, wind and fire. Although modern life is nearly an antithesis to the ancient land of Aryavarta, through the practice of sadhana, each of us can begin to recognize the infinite in the finite. By reordering our lives to move within the cosmic rhythms we can cognize the absolute Divine Love found equally and wholly in all things. Twenty years ago, I redirected myself toward living a life entwined with nature. I was led back to the Himalayas. I found myself descending from a mountain to face the light shadows of an afternoon sun, stretching across the forest of winter trees adorned with ice. The iced branches accentuated nature’s dynamic structure in fluent movement. Each branch seemed to replicate the cosmic forms, musical symbols, horns of the reindeer, delicate tear drops, letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, shapes of animals, spiral of creation and the six-pointed star of the snowflake, all brought forth from the vibration within nature. Here, in the serene Himalayan winter, I first recognized that all of nature is perpetually within sadhana. In this state of profound personal serenity I was thrust to the depths of my heart, where I discovered the true nature of sadhana. Sadhana is formed from ojas, prana and tejas. These three primordial principles coalesce into the cosmic templates of food, breath and sound. This discovery, rooted in the wisdom of the Vedas, emerged as my observance of human life within nature deepened. On top of that Himalayan mountain, my own cognition awoke to the ways of universal sadhana. The healing forces of sadhana work through nature in many ways. The leaves and bark of the trees are continually massaged by the wind; the rocks and pebbles are rubbed by the streams and rivers; the animals are brushed by the undergrowth of the forests and the birds are caressed by the wind and skies. These natural motions are part of the universe’s immense rhythms and comprise her innate practice of sadhana. All forms of life, other than the human species, naturally remain in the bliss of their Mother’s bosom, enduring life, obeying their instincts for survival. We are also equipped with this universal instinct, with cosmic impulses that irretrievably bond us to the creation. We need only redirect our life to move within the cosmic rhythms, instead of fighting the natural order, and our universal instinct will guide us. In the practice of sadhana, we may be able to resume our human birthright as stewards who safeguard all of life. Sadhana is more than humans’ mere duty to dharma. To quote Rabindranath Tagore, in discussion of one who practices sadhana: "The water does not merely cleanse our limbs, but it purifies our heart, for it touches our soul. The Earth does not merely hold our body, but it gladdens our mind, for its contact is more that a physical contact. It is a living presence." And when we learn to dance within the Earth’s cosmic rhythms, we begin to heal from a core deep within us. We experience sadhana. More at: http://www.hinduismtoday.com/ Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org The truth about Islam and Muslims http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:      "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send peace, but a sword.      "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.      "And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.  - Matthew 10:34-36.      o  Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.      o  If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read, considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.      o  Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article. FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed that this constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. 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Actually the new femchef is Bush’s Mommy by Proxy. Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the new whitehouse chef is a woman who served a veggie meal to the first international guest at the whitehouse since under her food-management started. is bush turning a veggie? looks like eyerack might have a sobering effect on him. White House appoints female chef Comerford in the kitchen Comerford impressed with a banquet for the Indian PM A Philippines-born woman has been appointed the first female head chef at the White House after a six-month search led by First Lady Laura Bush. Cristeta Comerford was for 10 years the assistant to Walter Scheib III who quit the top position in February. Her duties will include preparing all menus and meals for the First Family and their private entertaining, as well as office and state dinners. In recent years the head chef has earned about $100,000 (

Then they weren’t true Christians were they? In fact the two largest religous groups Catholics and Muslims are also the groups guilty of murder and genocide throughout their history. But the Bible forewarned of both of these groups and their origin.

Yeah, Hal Lindsey told us all about it in 1970, in *The Late Great Planet Earth,* when the Soviet Union was *Gog* and we’d all be raptured off the earth before the world powers rained nuclear warheads on on one another and ecological disasters right out of *The Population Bomb* killed billions of people.  We ate it right up and expected the world to come to an end at any time.  Well, guess what, we’re still here, the Soviet Union is long gone, the Baby Boomers who were duped into believing his world-is-coming-to-an-end palaver threw all his books away, and now the Gen-Xers and their kids are falling for it, only now there’s a new Gog and a new Antichrist to point accusing fingers at. When one generation burns out on the second-coming message, there’s always a new flock to fleece every thirty years or so.  Like all these worthless Nostradamus books, there’s always a quick buck to be made in the Second Coming racket, and Brother Hal continues to rake in the shekels–

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Then they weren’t true Christians were they? In fact the two largest religous groups Catholics and Muslims are also the groups guilty of  murder and genocide throughout their history. But the Bible forewarned of both of these groups and their origin. Revelation 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. The Judgement of God. Revelation 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast (Catholocism) and the false prophet (Islam) are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Matthew 7:12  

 fixed typo:  Our Christian Nation     Videos   – One Nation Under God 01/02 (28:34 min.)   – One Nation Under God 02/02 (28:30 min. )   – Spiritual Heritage of the US Capital (63 min.)   – The ACLU Agenda (58 min.)   – We the People Overruled! (59 min.)   – Would You Like to Accept Eternal Life? A Christian Bible Study Collection    http://Bibleweb.Info/ << ===   A Christian Bible Study Collection   === Bibleweb.Info — 250Gb online – 1.5Tb DVD archive Comprehensive Old & New Testament Bible studies, prophecy, commentaries, concordances, apologetics, Bible lookups, and multiple translations. PowerPoint, movies in RealAudio, MP3, MediaPlayer, Adobe PDF formats with free readers. A rich set of web site links, continually being updated.    http://bibleweb.info/ What’s New at Bibleweb.Info    http://bibleweb.info/ftp/whats-new.html Why Read the Bible? How We Got Our Bible Meditations on the Excellencies of the Word of God (Psalm 119) How to Study the Bible Battle for the Church in the Last Days Introduction to Prophecy Signs of the LORD’s Return How to Study Bible Prophecy The Rapture Are You Ready for the Rapture? Small Group Study Materials Verse-by-Verse, Chapter-by-Chapter, Book-by-Book Teaching (Audio – MP3) Commentary Small Group Bible Study Materials Small Group Bible Study Materials – Thru-the-Bible Old Testament New Testament *** Additional Materials in the Member’s Area ***

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Our Christian Nation     Videos   – One Nation Under God 01/02 (28:34 min.)   – One Nation Under God 02/02 (28:30 min. )   – Spiritual Heritage of the US Capital (63 min.)   – The ACLU Agenda (58 min.)   – We the People Overruled! (59 min.)   – Would You Like to Accept Eternal Life?    ftp://in:out65.13.76.157/=DRIVE=bibleweb-drive/=CD-R2=our-christian-nation /index.html A Christian Bible Study Collection    http://Bibleweb.Info/ << ===   A Christian Bible Study Collection   === Bibleweb.Info — 250Gb online – 1.5Tb DVD archive Comprehensive Old & New Testament Bible studies, prophecy, commentaries, concordances, apologetics, Bible lookups, and multiple translations. PowerPoint, movies in RealAudio, MP3, MediaPlayer, Adobe PDF formats with free readers. A rich set of web site links, continually being updated.    http://bibleweb.info/ What’s New at Bibleweb.Info    http://bibleweb.info/ftp/whats-new.html Why Read the Bible? How We Got Our Bible Meditations on the Excellencies of the Word of God (Psalm 119) How to Study the Bible Battle for the Church in the Last Days Introduction to Prophecy Signs of the LORD’s Return How to Study Bible Prophecy The Rapture Are You Ready for the Rapture? Small Group Study Materials Verse-by-Verse, Chapter-by-Chapter, Book-by-Book Teaching (Audio – MP3) Commentary Small Group Bible Study Materials Small Group Bible Study Materials – Thru-the-Bible Old Testament New Testament *** Additional Materials in the Member’s Area ***

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Now that 300 christians have died (and many missing), the missonaries need to work overtime to compensate for this loss by converting more hindus. Funding will be rushed from other countries in name of "calamity aid" for this converson. The modus operandi is simple. Visit the slums and offer them Rs 10,000 per family. Those who are not sure of their next meal, will accept the offer readily. Amen 300 killed in Vailankanni Monday December 27 2004 00:21 IST VAILANKANNI: Over 300 persons, mostly women and children, were reported dead in the aftermath of the tremor in the coastal area here on Sunday and as many as 2,000 persons, including a large number of tourists, were missing. Since it was a Sunday and a day after Christmas celebrations, a large number of people had arrived in this holy town to participate in the special prayers at the famous shrine here. The casualty, according to eye-witnesses, could be more as tourists from towns far and near had come here in view of the holiday. Sources said many youth were having a dip in the sea around 9 a.m. and sudden tidal waves that erupted came to them as a rude shock. The 40-ft high waves swept a large number of people resulting in panic and chaos all around. Soon, huge waves lashed several areas close to the sea inundating many places and washing away a large number of huts and shops. After about an hour, when water started receding, bodies were seen lying on the sea-shore and beach road. As officials apparently did not turn up at the spot, the Vailankanni Church administration, with the help of locals, removed the bodies in tractors and placed them at the Kalaiarangam. Police were also present in small numbers on arterial roads. http://www.newindpress.com/coastalcalamity/News.asp?Topic=-367&Title=…

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The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:      "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send peace, but a sword.      "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.      "And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.  - Matthew 10:34-36. Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now that 300 christians have died (and many missing), the missonaries need to work overtime to compensate for this loss by converting more hindus. Funding will be rushed from other countries in name of "calamity aid" for this converson. The modus operandi is simple. Visit the slums and offer them Rs 10,000 per family. Those who are not sure of their next meal, will accept the offer readily. Amen 300 killed in Vailankanni Monday December 27 2004 00:21 IST VAILANKANNI: Over 300 persons, mostly women and children, were reported dead in the aftermath of the tremor in the coastal area here on Sunday and as many as 2,000 persons, including a large number of tourists, were missing. Since it was a Sunday and a day after Christmas celebrations, a large number of people had arrived in this holy town to participate in the special prayers at the famous shrine here. The casualty, according to eye-witnesses, could be more as tourists from towns far and near had come here in view of the holiday. Sources said many youth were having a dip in the sea around 9 a.m. and sudden tidal waves that erupted came to them as a rude shock. The 40-ft high waves swept a large number of people resulting in panic and chaos all around. Soon, huge waves lashed several areas close to the sea inundating many places and washing away a large number of huts and shops. After about an hour, when water started receding, bodies were seen lying on the sea-shore and beach road. As officials apparently did not turn up at the spot, the Vailankanni Church administration, with the help of locals, removed the bodies in tractors and placed them at the Kalaiarangam. Police were also present in small numbers on arterial roads. http://www.newindpress.com/coastalcalamity/News.asp?Topic=-367&Title=… 041226135939

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The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible: Now that 300 christians have died (and many missing), the missonaries need to work overtime to compensate for this loss by converting more hindus. Funding will be rushed from other countries in name of "calamity aid" for this converson.

Give it a rest, you f**king apathetic bastards! Even in the middle of a great national tragedy, you witless bastards are unable to suppress your   malevolent, self-serving, moronic tirades. Jump into the sea and put your pathetic selves out of your misery, you unfeeling motherf**kers! — Jai Mahadouche http://www.claptrap.com/jai Om Shanty Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/life/2004/12/17/stories/200412170… Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/oct/29kp.htm http://www.secularindia.com/sangh_parivars_hidden_agenda.htm The truth about Islam and Muslims http://www.stopfundinghate.org/sacw/part1.html While in almost all the developed countries, the female lead in the sex ratio, it is in India that the males dominate the chart. Worse still is when we take a look at the child sex ratio, between the age group of zero to six. For the nation, the child sex ratio is 927. But the figures drop significantly when we see the community report card: 950 for Muslims, 925 for Hindus, and a shocking 786 for the Sikhs. Call it shocking or dismal, but the fact remains that the growing female foeticide and getting rid of the girl child before she reaches the age of six, is a dastardly crime. Here is the modern India for you, fast heading towards a daughter-less nation. In an era of new economy based on knowledge-based systems and in a fast-track mode, the Hindu rate of growth has also acquired a new dimension. Here is the new Hindu rate of growth for you, linked to rising literacy

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Canadian Official Hails Muslims’ "Vital Contributions" By Muneeb Nasir, IOL correspondent TORONTO, December 25 (Islamonline.net) – The Premier of the Canadian province of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty, has sent a welcoming message to the third annual Reviving the Islamic Spirit Convention, which kicked off here on Friday, December 24. In his message the senior official expressed his best wishes for an inspirational convention. "The Muslim community continues to make vital contributions to the economic, social and cultural fabric of our great province," McGuinty said. "I applaud the thousands of enthusiastic young people who have come together this weekend in a spirit of optimism to explore ways in which Muslim youth can make a difference in the life of their community – and make the world a better place," he added. Thousands of Canadian Muslims flocked Friday to the Toronto Skydome, in the heart of downtown Toronto, for the opening of the three-day convention, which seeks to promote greater understanding of their faith and a more active citizenry. The 2003 round of the convention drew an unanimous praise for the group of students who organized the event. The media said the university students instilled into the event youthful dynamism, exceptional organizational skill, and a genuine sincerity for their religion that pleasantly surprised everyone. Toronto, the capital of Ontario, the province that one in three Canadians call home, has the largest concentration of Muslims in the Canada. "Legacy of the Prophet" The convention began with the Friday congregational prayers which were led by Shaykh Abdullah Hakim Quick, a senior lecturer at Dar-ul-Arqam Institute and Director of the Dawah Department of the Muslim Judicial Council, Cape Town, South Africa. The afternoon session was addressed by Dr. Bilal Philips, the Director of the Islamic Information Center in Dubai, UAE, who spoke on "Calling to Islam and the Characteristics of Callers." Looking at the Prophetic example, Philips advised the audience on ways of doing community outreach. The event gained momentum later in the evening as more people came in drove to listen to the sessions despite the frigid temperatures in Toronto. Dr. Tareq Al-Suwaidan, a popular TV personality in the Arab countries, captivated the audience as he related the early life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and the establishment of the Muslim community. Al-Suwaidan is the producer of the album, Qassas al-Anbiyaa (Lives of the Prophets), which is one of the best selling Islamic albums in the world. He expressed his great admiration for the justice and pluralism that exists in Canada. "I would like to express my love and admiration for this country, Canada," he said.  "Canada shall stay great as long as it has justice." He encouraged the Canadian Muslim community to be exemplars of Islam. "Muslims cannot live in isolation," Al-Suwaidan said. "You must be involved. You must show the world the beauty of Islam," he urged the audience. Dr. Zakir Naik, the internationally renowned orator on Islam and comparative religion, enthralled the crowd with his presentation on references in the Abrahamic and non-Abrahamic scriptures about Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him). He dazzled the audience with his grasp of a vast array of scriptures and his ability to provide exact references for each argument he proposed. The evening concluded with an appearance by Amr Khaled, a London-based prominent Egyptian preacher. He entered the stadium to much fanfare and was greeted with great enthusiasm. Diversity of Muslims on display "Muslims cannot live in isolation.. You must show the world the beauty of Islam," Al-Suwaidan urged the audience. In addition to the lectures, a colorful bazaar is being held in the stadium with displays and booths of products and services for the Muslim community. The diversity of the Canadian Muslim community was on display Friday evening as Muslims from all ethnic groups were evident in the audience. The number of Canadian Muslims has increased dramatically over the last decade, according to a national census. With approximately 600,000 Muslims in the country, Islam became the number one non-Christian faith in Canada.

Yep. Here’s one they missed. This Arab terrorist was converted by Christian thought Walid Shoebat, former terrorist, was born and trained in Muslim terrorism. When growing up taught to hate Jews, even before he even knew what a Jew was. Learned it was a holy Muslim aim to retake Israel by force. He participated in terrorist activities. Learned to make bombs. Personally attacked to kill. Married a Christian woman in1993. Read the Christian bible with aim to prove to wife the truths of Islam. Instead the truth was proven to Walid. His appearances in public today are the exact opposite of the terrorist activities he was taught. For a complete story go to http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=56867 . Promise: It will blow your mind.

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Canadian Official Hails Muslims’ "Vital Contributions"

It is indeed "vital" that cabs are driven and laundry is washed.  I salute them… Find out the truth about the abomination known as islam in The Flanstein: http://flanstein.blogspot.com/

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Canadian Official Hails Muslims’ "Vital Contributions" By Muneeb Nasir, IOL correspondent TORONTO, December 25 (Islamonline.net) – The Premier of the Canadian province of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty, has sent a welcoming message to the third annual Reviving the Islamic Spirit Convention, which kicked off here on Friday, December 24. In his message the senior official expressed his best wishes for an inspirational convention. "The Muslim community continues to make vital contributions to the economic, social and cultural fabric of our great province," McGuinty said. "I applaud the thousands of enthusiastic young people who have come together this weekend in a spirit of optimism to explore ways in which Muslim youth can make a difference in the life of their community – and make the world a better place," he added. Thousands of Canadian Muslims flocked Friday to the Toronto Skydome, in the heart of downtown Toronto, for the opening of the three-day convention, which seeks to promote greater understanding of their faith and a more active citizenry. The 2003 round of the convention drew an unanimous praise for the group of students who organized the event. The media said the university students instilled into the event youthful dynamism, exceptional organizational skill, and a genuine sincerity for their religion that pleasantly surprised everyone. Toronto, the capital of Ontario, the province that one in three Canadians call home, has the largest concentration of Muslims in the Canada. "Legacy of the Prophet" The convention began with the Friday congregational prayers which were led by Shaykh Abdullah Hakim Quick, a senior lecturer at Dar-ul-Arqam Institute and Director of the Dawah Department of the Muslim Judicial Council, Cape Town, South Africa. The afternoon session was addressed by Dr. Bilal Philips, the Director of the Islamic Information Center in Dubai, UAE, who spoke on "Calling to Islam and the Characteristics of Callers." Looking at the Prophetic example, Philips advised the audience on ways of doing community outreach. The event gained momentum later in the evening as more people came in drove to listen to the sessions despite the frigid temperatures in Toronto. Dr. Tareq Al-Suwaidan, a popular TV personality in the Arab countries, captivated the audience as he related the early life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and the establishment of the Muslim community. Al-Suwaidan is the producer of the album, Qassas al-Anbiyaa (Lives of the Prophets), which is one of the best selling Islamic albums in the world. He expressed his great admiration for the justice and pluralism that exists in Canada. "I would like to express my love and admiration for this country, Canada," he said.  "Canada shall stay great as long as it has justice." He encouraged the Canadian Muslim community to be exemplars of Islam. "Muslims cannot live in isolation," Al-Suwaidan said. "You must be involved. You must show the world the beauty of Islam," he urged the audience. Dr. Zakir Naik, the internationally renowned orator on Islam and comparative religion, enthralled the crowd with his presentation on references in the Abrahamic and non-Abrahamic scriptures about Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him). He dazzled the audience with his grasp of a vast array of scriptures and his ability to provide exact references for each argument he proposed. The evening concluded with an appearance by Amr Khaled, a London-based prominent Egyptian preacher. He entered the stadium to much fanfare and was greeted with great enthusiasm. Diversity of Muslims on display "Muslims cannot live in isolation.. You must show the world the beauty of Islam," Al-Suwaidan urged the audience. In addition to the lectures, a colorful bazaar is being held in the stadium with displays and booths of products and services for the Muslim community. The diversity of the Canadian Muslim community was on display Friday evening as Muslims from all ethnic groups were evident in the audience. The number of Canadian Muslims has increased dramatically over the last decade, according to a national census. With approximately 600,000 Muslims in the country, Islam became the number one non-Christian faith in Canada. The census attributed the increase to immigration from South Asia, North Africa and the Middle East. http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-12/25/article02.shtml

Response:

Hey, the politicians know how to work the crowd….but at the same time, you can be damned sure that CSIS is keeping a close eye on the Muslim community/mosques……. Yeah, Muslims are dying to get out of their repressed, oppressive societies…But with radical Islam rearing its head, the population of even liberal western societies (Holland, Denmark, Sweden) have clamored to drastically cut Muslim immigration. With approximately 600,000 Muslims in the country, Islam became the

number one non-Christian faith in Canada. The census attributed the increase to immigration from South Asia,

North Africa and the Middle East. Muslim is shrinking in converts, though the Islamists on this NG would have you believe otherwise….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Canadian Official Hails Muslims’ "Vital Contributions" By Muneeb Nasir, IOL correspondent TORONTO, December 25 (Islamonline.net) – The Premier of the Canadian province of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty, has sent a welcoming message to the third annual Reviving the Islamic Spirit Convention, which kicked off here on Friday, December 24. In his message the senior official expressed his best wishes for an inspirational convention. "The Muslim community continues to make vital contributions to the economic, social and cultural fabric of our great province," McGuinty said. "I applaud the thousands of enthusiastic young people who have come together this weekend in a spirit of optimism to explore ways in which Muslim youth can make a difference in the life of their community – and make the world a better place," he added. Thousands of Canadian Muslims flocked Friday to the Toronto Skydome, in the heart of downtown Toronto, for the opening of the three-day convention, which seeks to promote greater understanding of their faith and a more active citizenry. The 2003 round of the convention drew an unanimous praise for the group of students who organized the event. The media said the university students instilled into the event youthful dynamism, exceptional organizational skill, and a genuine sincerity for their religion that pleasantly surprised everyone. Toronto, the capital of Ontario, the province that one in three Canadians call home, has the largest concentration of Muslims in the Canada. "Legacy of the Prophet" The convention began with the Friday congregational prayers which were led by Shaykh Abdullah Hakim Quick, a senior lecturer at Dar-ul-Arqam Institute and Director of the Dawah Department of the Muslim Judicial Council, Cape Town, South Africa. The afternoon session was addressed by Dr. Bilal Philips, the Director of the Islamic Information Center in Dubai, UAE, who spoke on "Calling to Islam and the Characteristics of Callers." Looking at the Prophetic example, Philips advised the audience on ways of doing community outreach. The event gained momentum later in the evening as more people came in drove to listen to the sessions despite the frigid temperatures in Toronto. Dr. Tareq Al-Suwaidan, a popular TV personality in the Arab countries, captivated the audience as he related the early life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and the establishment of the Muslim community. Al-Suwaidan is the producer of the album, Qassas al-Anbiyaa (Lives of the Prophets), which is one of the best selling Islamic albums in the world. He expressed his great admiration for the justice and pluralism that exists in Canada. "I would like to express my love and admiration for this country, Canada," he said.  "Canada shall stay great as long as it has justice." He encouraged the Canadian Muslim community to be exemplars of Islam. "Muslims cannot live in isolation," Al-Suwaidan said. "You must be involved. You must show the world the beauty of Islam," he urged the audience. Dr. Zakir Naik, the internationally renowned orator on Islam and comparative religion, enthralled the crowd with his presentation on references in the Abrahamic and non-Abrahamic scriptures about Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him). He dazzled the audience with his grasp of a vast array of scriptures and his ability to provide exact references for each argument he proposed. The evening concluded with an appearance by Amr Khaled, a London-based prominent Egyptian preacher. He entered the stadium to much fanfare and was greeted with great enthusiasm. Diversity of Muslims on display "Muslims cannot live in isolation.. You must show the world the beauty of Islam," Al-Suwaidan urged the audience. In addition to the lectures, a colorful bazaar is being held in the stadium with displays and booths of products and services for the Muslim community. The diversity of the Canadian Muslim community was on display Friday evening as Muslims from all ethnic groups were evident in the audience. The number of Canadian Muslims has increased dramatically over the last decade, according to a national census. With approximately 600,000 Muslims in the country, Islam became the number one non-Christian faith in Canada. The census attributed the increase to immigration from South Asia, North Africa and the Middle East. http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-12/25/article02.shtml

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" Why are you asking other people? I think he meant to say, "Given the information I have told you about myself and mt beliefs, what do you guys think about the idea of me pursuing Wicca? Does it sound like it fits what I have described about myself?" Does that sound better lol Yes. The answer to that is that he doesn’t need to pursue Wicca. If you already have these things about you, then just do what you’re doing, and it will be fine. If what you’re doing is not fitting with your attributes, then you should probably change. But just because there is an onus to change, it does not mean you have to change to something organized. Do what you feel is right. After a while in which you get a bit firm in what you’re doing, you may then wish to investigate Wicca. If it meshes with what you’re already doing, then that’s great. I think it’s best summed up with the idea that religion must conform with beliefs, rather than your beliefs being dictated by your religion.

The eclectic rede covers it… "Steal what works, Mend what’s broke, Forget the rest"..:-) P – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nathan- One thing I learned VERY quickly- on newsgroups, you have to say EXACTLY what you mean. I got blasted so many times for not being precise lol. Just a lil’ F.Y.I. That’s some very good advice. And even when following it, consider the fact that people may still misunderstand.

Response:

My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" Why are you asking other people? I think he meant to say, "Given the information I have told you about myself and mt beliefs, what do you guys think about the idea of me pursuing Wicca? Does it sound like it fits what I have described about myself?" Does that sound better lol

Yes. The answer to that is that he doesn’t need to pursue Wicca. If you already have these things about you, then just do what you’re doing, and it will be fine. If what you’re doing is not fitting with your attributes, then you should probably change. But just because there is an onus to change, it does not mean you have to change to something organized. Do what you feel is right. After a while in which you get a bit firm in what you’re doing, you may then wish to investigate Wicca. If it meshes with what you’re already doing, then that’s great. I think it’s best summed up with the idea that religion must conform with beliefs, rather than your beliefs being dictated by your religion. Nathan- One thing I learned VERY quickly- on newsgroups, you have to say EXACTLY what you mean. I got blasted so many times for not being precise lol. Just a lil’ F.Y.I.

That’s some very good advice. And even when following it, consider the fact that people may still misunderstand.

Response:

I think he meant to say, "Given the information I have told you about myself and mt beliefs, what do you guys think about the idea of me pursuing Wicca? Does it sound like it fits what I have described about myself?" Does that sound better lol

Thank You Rainey Yes she covered what I was thinking I believe.I was trying to start a topic about it, because I wanted to hear people’s opinions, that doesn’t mean that any one person will affect my decisions however.

Response:

wondering if Wicca is where I want to go from there. Also, I wasn’t asking for definitive answers for my dilemmas, I brought up some points about my beliefs that I thought could warrant some discussion in the group.

Well that’s a good start. Discussion.

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My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?"

Why are you asking other people?

Response:

My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" Why are you asking other people?

I think he meant to say, "Given the information I have told you about myself and mt beliefs, what do you guys think about the idea of me pursuing Wicca? Does it sound like it fits what I have described about myself?" Does that sound better lol Nathan- One thing I learned VERY quickly- on newsgroups, you have to say EXACTLY what you mean. I got blasted so many times for not being precise lol. Just a lil’ F.Y.I. rainey — Your impossible ego fuck is like a Megalomaniacal tab on my tongue You fuckin’ touch me I will rip you apart I’ll reach in and take a bite out of that Shit you call a heart… I don’t mind being ogled, ridiculed Made to feel miniscule If you consider the source, it’s kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is… …that’s all you’ll ever know ~~~~~S.k.

Response:

Realizing your pagan – ness is a fine start. You can always find public groups and meetings related to such, and find what feels right. If you feel uncomfortable with what someone’s doing, it prolly isn’t right for you. Try some books. If you get into the book and find yourself thinking "ah, bullshit" you might try a different book! ;D

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nobody can tell you if Wicca is right for you, Nathan. People who want to be told or need to be told if a religion is right for them are incapable at this stage of spiritual development of truly understanding Wicca. Please answer the question for yourself. Wicca is not right for everyone. People who don’t want to work at becoming spiritually enlightened should sit in their pews on Sunday morning pretending not to fall asleep. It’s not a question of whether I want to be spirtiually enlightened. It’s a matter of believing in magick. I know that I am Pagan, just wondering if Wicca is where I want to go from there. Also, I wasn’t asking for definitive answers for my dilemmas, I brought up some points about my beliefs that I thought could warrant some discussion in the group.

Response:

I have been reading around this group for sometime. Not sure if I have ever posted. I got turned towards Wicca by a friend of mine that I had met online. She told me that because of the ways that I look at my gifts that I would probably be spiritually fulfilled, looking into and studying about Wicca, and Witchcraft. My problem is this, I don’t view magick as anything supernatural or strange or whatever the "muggles" wanna call it. In fact, I don’t really think of anything that I do as magick. To me, it’s more of a meditative state, sort of what I believe the Christians could accomplish with "prayer", if they were sincere. I use "Magick Words" only as a helper, if you will, to get into the proper state that I need to be in to properly use my gifts. I do not pretend to be some powerful wizard that can take anything he wants, or to perform great feats. I go through my life trying to figure out what is expected of me. I keep an aura around myself, because I am extremely empathic, but it’s doesn’t always keep everything out, espescially during meditation. I can often "know" things, that people are thinking, or that have happened in the past. Things that I am sure that I didn’t know 10 minutes before, but it just hits me in a flash that I know it. Again, I do not view this a magickal. I believe that herbs and roots have the power to heal, and do other fantastic things, but that is the way the Goddess planned it, and I do not view that as magikcal, either. I do not use a wand, and I have no real feelings that a wand would give me anymore power than I have already. I believe that I can learn more about my gifts and to learn to harness them and use them for good. My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" I gave up Christianity for a great many reasons, not the least of which was my belief that there are no such things as "biblical miracles." God doesn’t give a person the power to use one’s gifts. Goddess created the gifts and it’s up to us to find them and use them. Am I alone in my beliefs? Sometimes I feel like a freak, then I come into this group and read, or other groups and websites with similar content, and I feel like there are others that, at least to a point, knows how I feel. Thank you for listening to my rambling, Natt Thresk natt_thresk(at) hotmail(dot)com

Response:

10Q! ^_^

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (O/) (O O)  ~,,/~ … Well put Rhy! Wicca is just another religion with a deity – affiliation very similar to xtainity, including guilt trips, threats of ‘divine’ retribution of a dubious nature, and people who are all hopped up on themselves trying to tell you how to think  [these people being the ones to *create* the aforementioned issues]. If you WANT to go from one power – over system into Otherwise, I would suggest simply studying what’s out there. There’s a fascinating world out there that has fuck – all to do with gods of any stripe [they're make buhleeeeeve, donchyaknow] . The only tool you need is the lumpy thing sitting between your shoulders that keeps your shirt collar in place. Don’t strap yourself down to dogma, nor commit to something that looks shiny and nice on the outside. Oh, and don’t be fooled by people who claim to have the answers, enlightenment, The TRUTH, or The WAY. Good I have been reading around this group for sometime. Not sure if I have ever posted. I got turned towards Wicca by a friend of mine that I had met online. She told me that because of the ways that I look at my gifts that I would probably be spiritually fulfilled, looking into and studying about Wicca, and Witchcraft. My problem is this, I don’t view magick as anything supernatural or strange or whatever the "muggles" wanna call it. In fact, I don’t really think of anything that I do as magick. To me, it’s more of a meditative state, sort of what I believe the Christians could accomplish with "prayer", if they were sincere. I use "Magick Words" only as a helper, if you will, to get into the proper state that I need to be in to properly use my gifts. I do not pretend to be some powerful wizard that can take anything he wants, or to perform great feats. I go through my life trying to figure out what is expected of me. I keep an aura around myself, because I am extremely empathic, but it’s doesn’t always keep everything out, espescially during meditation. I can often "know" things, that people are thinking, or that have happened in the past. Things that I am sure that I didn’t know 10 minutes before, but it just hits me in a flash that I know it. Again, I do not view this a magickal. I believe that herbs and roots have the power to heal, and do other fantastic things, but that is the way the Goddess planned it, and I do not view that as magikcal, either. I do not use a wand, and I have no real feelings that a wand would give me anymore power than I have already. I believe that I can learn more about my gifts and to learn to harness them and use them for good. My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" I gave up Christianity for a great many reasons, not the least of which was my belief that there are no such things as "biblical miracles." God doesn’t give a person the power to use one’s gifts. Goddess created the gifts and it’s up to us to find them and use them. Am I alone in my beliefs? Sometimes I feel like a freak, then I come into this group and read, or other groups and websites with similar content, and I feel like there are others that, at least to a point, knows how I feel. Thank you for listening to my rambling, Natt Thresk natt_thresk(at) hotmail(dot)com

Response:

Wicca may be right for you. but since you are in a period of your life where you are undergoing a change, question of beliefs, whatever, your best bet would be to research different mythologies. if you are interested in having a deity to worship, that is. even Wicca has the Lord and Lady:) i, personally, consider myself an eclectic neo-pagan. i am not wiccan. i am eclectic b/c over the course of years of researching various paths and trads, i combined many aspects into my belief system. which in a way sounds a bit like yours. i use no candles, rituals or anything like that. i use the power within myself and in nature around me. your best bet is to read. read everything you can get your hands on. about Wicca, about pagansim in general. see what fits you best. you may find yourself an eclectic, like myself. Wicca is usually a starting point for people. they begin with Wicca, then find entrance to a previously unknown world:) then the real fun begins:) there is herbal magick, nature magick, "personal power magick" (what i do)….there are a vast assortment of categories. don’t feel limited by Wicca. Read. and asl a lot of questions rainey — Your impossible ego fuck is like a Megalomaniacal tab on my tongue You fuckin’ touch me I will rip you apart I’ll reach in and take a bite out of that Shit you call a heart… I don’t mind being ogled, ridiculed Made to feel miniscule If you consider the source, it’s kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is… …that’s all you’ll ever know ~~~~~S.k.

Response:

Nobody can tell you if Wicca is right for you, Nathan. People who want to be told or need to be told if a religion is right for them are incapable at this stage of spiritual development of truly understanding Wicca. Please answer the question for yourself. Wicca is not right for everyone. People who don’t want to work at becoming spiritually enlightened should sit in their pews on Sunday morning pretending not to fall asleep.

It’s not a question of whether I want to be spirtiually enlightened. It’s a matter of believing in magick. I know that I am Pagan, just wondering if Wicca is where I want to go from there. Also, I wasn’t asking for definitive answers for my dilemmas, I brought up some points about my beliefs that I thought could warrant some discussion in the group.

Response:

Nobody can tell you if Wicca is right for you, Nathan. People who want to be told or need to be told if a religion is right for them are incapable at this stage of spiritual development of truly understanding Wicca. Please answer the question for yourself. Wicca is not right for everyone. People who don’t want to work at becoming spiritually enlightened should sit in their pews on Sunday morning pretending not to fall asleep.

Response:

Thank you for listening to my rambling, Natt Thresk

And thank you for your kind responses. Rhyanon, I believe that I know what it is that you are talking about. I am not sure that an organized religion is right for me, if I am expected to put up with the same types that I had to put up with in christianity, and catholocism. Hipocrits annoy me. "Holier" than thou types also bug me. I am not naive enough to fall for the ramblings of people that say that if I follow them they can give me knowledge. I know that only *I* can find the knowledge that I seek. Although, others may *teach* me they cannot *give* me knowledge. I have long believed in a heirarchy of Gods and Goddesses, and the teachings of Wicca, kind of go against this. I also believe that no spiritual learning is wrong. If Christians are not wrong, although, I believe, they would get more out of their spirituality if they would actually spend the time on their own to GAIN the knowledge, instead of taking it from the mouth of their "teacher". Anyways, I have lots to think about. And I am still studying Wicca, even if it turns out just to be for the sport of it. After all I have studied many other religions that I don’t believe in. Nathan

Response:

 (O/) (O O)  ~,,/~ … Well put Rhy!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wicca is just another religion with a deity – affiliation very similar to xtainity, including guilt trips, threats of ‘divine’ retribution of a dubious nature, and people who are all hopped up on themselves trying to tell you how to think  [these people being the ones to *create* the aforementioned issues]. If you WANT to go from one power – over system into Otherwise, I would suggest simply studying what’s out there. There’s a fascinating world out there that has fuck – all to do with gods of any stripe [they're make buhleeeeeve, donchyaknow] . The only tool you need is the lumpy thing sitting between your shoulders that keeps your shirt collar in place. Don’t strap yourself down to dogma, nor commit to something that looks shiny and nice on the outside. Oh, and don’t be fooled by people who claim to have the answers, enlightenment, The TRUTH, or The WAY. Good I have been reading around this group for sometime. Not sure if I have ever posted. I got turned towards Wicca by a friend of mine that I had met online. She told me that because of the ways that I look at my gifts that I would probably be spiritually fulfilled, looking into and studying about Wicca, and Witchcraft. My problem is this, I don’t view magick as anything supernatural or strange or whatever the "muggles" wanna call it. In fact, I don’t really think of anything that I do as magick. To me, it’s more of a meditative state, sort of what I believe the Christians could accomplish with "prayer", if they were sincere. I use "Magick Words" only as a helper, if you will, to get into the proper state that I need to be in to properly use my gifts. I do not pretend to be some powerful wizard that can take anything he wants, or to perform great feats. I go through my life trying to figure out what is expected of me. I keep an aura around myself, because I am extremely empathic, but it’s doesn’t always keep everything out, espescially during meditation. I can often "know" things, that people are thinking, or that have happened in the past. Things that I am sure that I didn’t know 10 minutes before, but it just hits me in a flash that I know it. Again, I do not view this a magickal. I believe that herbs and roots have the power to heal, and do other fantastic things, but that is the way the Goddess planned it, and I do not view that as magikcal, either. I do not use a wand, and I have no real feelings that a wand would give me anymore power than I have already. I believe that I can learn more about my gifts and to learn to harness them and use them for good. My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" I gave up Christianity for a great many reasons, not the least of which was my belief that there are no such things as "biblical miracles." God doesn’t give a person the power to use one’s gifts. Goddess created the gifts and it’s up to us to find them and use them. Am I alone in my beliefs? Sometimes I feel like a freak, then I come into this group and read, or other groups and websites with similar content, and I feel like there are others that, at least to a point, knows how I feel. Thank you for listening to my rambling, Natt Thresk natt_thresk(at) hotmail(dot)com

Response:

Wicca is just another religion with a deity – affiliation very similar to xtainity, including guilt trips, threats of ‘divine’ retribution of a dubious nature, and people who are all hopped up on themselves trying to tell you how to think  [these people being the ones to *create* the aforementioned issues]. If you WANT to go from one power – over system into Otherwise, I would suggest simply studying what’s out there. There’s a fascinating world out there that has fuck – all to do with gods of any stripe [they're make buhleeeeeve, donchyaknow] . The only tool you need is the lumpy thing sitting between your shoulders that keeps your shirt collar in place. Don’t strap yourself down to dogma, nor commit to something that looks shiny and nice on the outside. Oh, and don’t be fooled by people who claim to have the answers, enlightenment, The TRUTH, or The WAY. Good

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading around this group for sometime. Not sure if I have ever posted. I got turned towards Wicca by a friend of mine that I had met online. She told me that because of the ways that I look at my gifts that I would probably be spiritually fulfilled, looking into and studying about Wicca, and Witchcraft. My problem is this, I don’t view magick as anything supernatural or strange or whatever the "muggles" wanna call it. In fact, I don’t really think of anything that I do as magick. To me, it’s more of a meditative state, sort of what I believe the Christians could accomplish with "prayer", if they were sincere. I use "Magick Words" only as a helper, if you will, to get into the proper state that I need to be in to properly use my gifts. I do not pretend to be some powerful wizard that can take anything he wants, or to perform great feats. I go through my life trying to figure out what is expected of me. I keep an aura around myself, because I am extremely empathic, but it’s doesn’t always keep everything out, espescially during meditation. I can often "know" things, that people are thinking, or that have happened in the past. Things that I am sure that I didn’t know 10 minutes before, but it just hits me in a flash that I know it. Again, I do not view this a magickal. I believe that herbs and roots have the power to heal, and do other fantastic things, but that is the way the Goddess planned it, and I do not view that as magikcal, either. I do not use a wand, and I have no real feelings that a wand would give me anymore power than I have already. I believe that I can learn more about my gifts and to learn to harness them and use them for good. My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" I gave up Christianity for a great many reasons, not the least of which was my belief that there are no such things as "biblical miracles." God doesn’t give a person the power to use one’s gifts. Goddess created the gifts and it’s up to us to find them and use them. Am I alone in my beliefs? Sometimes I feel like a freak, then I come into this group and read, or other groups and websites with similar content, and I feel like there are others that, at least to a point, knows how I feel. Thank you for listening to my rambling, Natt Thresk natt_thresk(at) hotmail(dot)com

Response:

My question is, then, "Is Wicca right for me?" I gave up Christianity for a great many reasons, not the least of which was my belief that there are no such things as "biblical miracles." God doesn’t give a person the power to use one’s gifts. Goddess created the gifts and it’s up to us to find them and use them. Am I alone in my beliefs? Sometimes I feel like a freak, then I come into this group and read, or other groups and websites with similar content, and I feel like there are others that, at least to a point, knows how I feel.

My mother calls herself a white witch, although I think that she uses the term white to pacify/mollify her conscience. The Little Death of those in her company is a significant part of what she does. The misnomer is a polarization of sorts; she casts healing magic as a generic way to make amends for her destructive ways. Some Christians do the same thing in a confessional, cleansing themselves…but the relationship with their victims? I call myself a wolf, because that is how I have appeared in my dreams, my native american indian spirit. The old tribal names have drifted on the wind, but the new name is still as tart as an unripe apple. A joyous day it will be when there is heard a harmony in the name of heritage. You have expressed dis-belief of the things written in the Christian bible as miraculous. I ask you to reconsider their value, not as one who is told by a preacher to Believe, but instead as one who dares to look for the reasons the witnesses of that time called it such. It seems fair to say that after two thousand years the stories have been glamorized, but is it fair to say that nothing unusual took place? They are understandable when I look on them carefully. But just as in Jesus’ day, many would cry out "Kill the heretic!" were I to write them down, and I do not wish to die for you. I prefer Acceptance over Faith, Understanding over Belief. -:|:- AngleWyrm

Response:

The Bible, God’s Word How do we know that the Bible is devine(supernatural) rather than human in

origin?  Yes, we can know for certain that the Bible, God’s Word, is devine and anyone who denies it is willfully ignorant(II Peter 3:5).

I know, maybe you can tell us what the prophecy in Matthew 27: 9 is. What prophecy in Jeremy the prophet is Matthew talking about. Please quote us the chapter in Jeremiah that would cover this. Oooops!! Or how about more from Matthew: The angel tells Joseph (Matthew 1:22-23) that this is done in order to fulfill the word of the prophet: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel." This prophecy is recorded in Isaiah 7:14. There it says: "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bare a son and shall call his name Emmanuel." But for the Jewish reader who knows Hebrew, this also raises problems. The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 that the king James translation translates as virgin is almah. In Hebrew almah means girl, young woman, that can be, or not, a virgin. Therefore the word virgin in Isaiah 7:14 is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word for virgin is betulah, that word is used for instance when the Holy Torah speaks about Rebecca in Genesis 24:16: ".a virgin, neither had any man known her" …..This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators, for instance "The New English Bible", "The Good News Bible", and "The Revised Standard Version" have translated this verse in the right way, and not as virgin. . —–The King James translation recognizes this fact too. When we look for instance at Exodus 2:8, and at Proverbs 30:19, there the Hebrew text also uses the word almah, and there the King James translates it with maid, which is a girl or young woman, whose state of virginity is unspecified. And in psalm 68:25 the King James translates almah as damsel, whose meaning is similar as maid. Interesting!! .Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a prophecy that the messiah will be born unto a virgin…. In fact, nowhere in the Old Testament do virgins give birth. This concept is only to be found in pagan mythology. Want more: …But quoting prophecies or conveying happenings from the Old Testament is not really the strong side of the New Testament. Look for instance at the book of Acts chapter 7. Here Stephen is arrested and led before the high court, accused of blasphemy. He speaks there about G.d calling Abraham. Acts 7:4 says: "He dwelt in Charran, and from there, when his father was dead, He removed him into this land wherein you now dwell." Here it clearly says that Abraham left Charran after the death of his father. Who was his father? See Genesis 11:26: "And Terah lived 70 years and he begot Abram, Nahor and Haran."….–So Abraham’s father was Terah, who was 70 years when he begot Abraham.-Genesis 12:4: "And Abraham was 75 years old when he departed from Haran." At this time, when Abraham departed from Haran, his father was 70+75=145 years old. And how long did his father live? Genesis 11:32: "And the days of Terah were 205 years and Terah died in Haran.".. ……. When Abraham left Haran his father was 145 years old. His father lived to be 205 years old. That means that after Abraham left Haran, his father lived another 60 years. (205-145) So how can Stephen say that Abraham left Haran after the death of his father? What did you say about the bible, inspired?? Divine??

Response:

The Bible, God’s Word How do we know that the Bible is devine(supernatural) rather than human in origin?

Easy – first 1)  We apply a bit of common sennse 2)  Then we have no difficulty in realising the bible is a man made thing. 3)  Why would a god rely on an old book to send a message to his flock.  Quite rediculous. 4)  Quoting from the bible to prove the bible is the word of a god is tantamount to lunacy!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Yes, we can know for certain that the Bible, God’s Word, is devine and anyone who denies it is willfully ignorant(II Peter 3:5). I know, maybe you can tell us what the prophecy in Matthew 27: 9 is. What prophecy in Jeremy the prophet is Matthew talking about. Please quote us the chapter in Jeremiah that would cover this. Oooops!! Or how about more from Matthew: The angel tells Joseph (Matthew 1:22-23) that this is done in order to fulfill the word of the prophet: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel." This prophecy is recorded in Isaiah 7:14. There it says: "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bare a son and shall call his name Emmanuel." But for the Jewish reader who knows Hebrew, this also raises problems. The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 that the king James translation translates as virgin is almah. In Hebrew almah means girl, young woman, that can be, or not, a virgin. Therefore the word virgin in Isaiah 7:14 is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word for virgin is betulah, that word is used for instance when the Holy Torah speaks about Rebecca in Genesis 24:16: ".a virgin, neither had any man known her" …..This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators, for instance "The New English Bible", "The Good News Bible", and "The Revised Standard Version" have translated this verse in the right way, and not as virgin. . —–The King James translation recognizes this fact too. When we look for instance at Exodus 2:8, and at Proverbs 30:19, there the Hebrew text also uses the word almah, and there the King James translates it with maid, which is a girl or young woman, whose state of virginity is unspecified. And in psalm 68:25 the King James translates almah as damsel, whose meaning is similar as maid. Interesting!! .Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a prophecy that the messiah will be born unto a virgin…. In fact, nowhere in the Old Testament do virgins give birth. This concept is only to be found in pagan mythology. Want more: …But quoting prophecies or conveying happenings from the Old Testament is not really the strong side of the New Testament. Look for instance at the book of Acts chapter 7. Here Stephen is arrested and led before the high court, accused of blasphemy. He speaks there about G.d calling Abraham. Acts 7:4 says: "He dwelt in Charran, and from there, when his father was dead, He removed him into this land wherein you now dwell." Here it clearly says that Abraham left Charran after the death of his father. Who was his father? See Genesis 11:26: "And Terah lived 70 years and he begot Abram, Nahor and Haran."….–So Abraham’s father was Terah, who was 70 years when he begot Abraham.-Genesis 12:4: "And Abraham was 75 years old when he departed from Haran." At this time, when Abraham departed from Haran, his father was 70+75=145 years old. And how long did his father live? Genesis 11:32: "And the days of Terah were 205 years and Terah died in Haran.".. ……. When Abraham left Haran his father was 145 years old. His father lived to be 205 years old. That means that after Abraham left Haran, his father lived another 60 years. (205-145) So how can Stephen say that Abraham left Haran after the death of his father? What did you say about the bible, inspired?? Divine??

Response:

The Bible, God’s Word How do we know that the Bible is devine(supernatural) rather than human in origin? Easy – first 1)  We apply a bit of common sennse

What if we are entirely lacking in common sense and prefer to believe in magic? 2)  Then we have no difficulty in realising the bible is a man made thing.

A person under the control of a cult will have difficulty! 3)  Why would a god rely on an old book to send a message to his flock.  Quite rediculous.

If a real god actually showed up some day, it would doubtless put a lot of preachers out of business.  But look at it this way, we live in an inconcievably vast universe with just one god and possibly millions of inhabited planets. God can’t just focus his attention only on earth, he has many other planets needing his attention. 4)  Quoting from the bible to prove the bible is the word of a god is tantamount to lunacy!!!!

Christians don’t mind being fools for God!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Bible, God’s Word How do we know that the Bible is devine(supernatural) rather than human in origin? Easy – first 1)  We apply a bit of common sennse What if we are entirely lacking in common sense and prefer to believe in magic? 2)  Then we have no difficulty in realising the bible is a man made thing. A person under the control of a cult will have difficulty! 3)  Why would a god rely on an old book to send a message to his flock.  Quite rediculous. If a real god actually showed up some day, it would doubtless put a lot of preachers out of business.  But look at it this way, we live in an inconcievably vast universe with just one god and possibly millions of inhabited planets. God can’t just focus his attention only on earth, he has many other planets needing his attention.

Ooooh no, thats not what the majority of religionists say.  But of course, one must expect a huge element of controversy when one deals with mythology 4)  Quoting from the bible to prove the bible is the word of a god is tantamount to lunacy!!!! Christians don’t mind being fools for God!

You said it!!!!

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                            THE DIVINE MASTERS               Most Christians would agree, and correctly so, that          Jesus Christ was a Divine Master, and a projection of God          into the physical world, God Incarnate.

Please, please , please, just once, ONE TIME, would one of you god guys offer some evidence for your assertions? Pick a god, any god, I don’t care, but just give me something more than your confidence that what you say is absolutely true. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.               But there are some very important related facts that          Christians are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of, as are followers of          most other world religions.

Including Eck. You sound like a total asshole. That’s always a good technique for gaining new converts. I’m going to snip the rest of your particular lunacy. And by the way, you sound no different than the christians who post in here. *snip*

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On 16 Nov 2004,  dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:                              THE DIVINE MASTERS                      Most Christians would agree, and correctly so, that           Jesus Christ was a Divine Master, and a projection of God           into the physical world, God Incarnate.                But there are some very important related facts that           Christians are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of, as are followers of           most other world religions.                First, Jesus Christ was NOT unique

Yup. Google up Horus of Egypt, Dionysus, Krishna, Zoroaster, and any of the other Pagan god-men.  Most Christians won’t go there.  Too scary. — Vic Sagerquist aa#2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                              THE DIVINE MASTERS                                               Robert E. McElwaine                                         Eckankar Initiate                                  http://members.aol.com/rem547 PLUS                                  http://members.aol.com/rem460                                  Preserve BOTH on CD-R and PRINT-OUTS           P.S.: PASS IT ON ! "EVERYTHING you know is WRONG." "The Truth IS stranger than fiction." "The Truth is ALWAYS the FIRST CASUALTY OF WAR." "OFFICIAL LIES are ALWAYS the BIGGEST LIES OF ALL." "The more things change, the more they STAY THE SAME."

Super! Sounds like a cult to me.  I think though that it would be cheaper to get a few books from the mind and spirit section. You don’t seem to realise that Jesus died and rose from the dead which makes any other "divine" masters redundant.  This was a one time show, and the Holy Spirit gives guidance today, as appropriate. I’m almost 40 and have only had one dream of a past life, several of the future, and none on exoplanets. Would believe in aliens if I dreamt about them? I did snip my sliver cord with physic scissors, but I’m not terribly bothered. Dave.

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                             THE DIVINE MASTERS                      Most Christians would agree, and correctly so, that           Jesus Christ was a Divine Master, and a projection of God           into the physical world, God Incarnate.                But there are some very important related facts that           Christians are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of, as are followers of           most other world religions.                First, Jesus Christ was NOT unique, John 3:16 NOTWITH-           STANDING.  There is ALWAYS at least one such Divine Master           (God Incarnate) PHYSICALLY ALIVE in this world AT ALL TIMES,           a continuous succession THROUGHOUT HISTORY, both before and           after the life of Jesus.                The followers of some of these Divine Masters founded           the world’s major religions, usually PERVERTING the teachings           of their Master in the process.  Christians, for example,           added THREATS of "ETERNAL DAMNATION" in Hell, and DELETED the           teaching of REincarnation.                Secondly, and more importantly, after a particular           Divine Master physically dies and leaves this world, there is           NOTHING that He can do for ANYbody except for the relatively           few people that He INITIATED while He was still PHYSICALLY           alive, [ ONLY 120 for Jesus Christ, according to Acts 1:15.].             THIS IS SIMPLY THE WAY GOD SET THINGS UP IN THE UNIVERSES.                Therefore, all those Christians who worship Jesus, and           pray to Jesus, and expect Jesus to return and save them from           their sins, have allowed themselves to be DUPED by a religion           that was mostly MANUFACTURED by the Romans.                And emotional "feelings" are a TOTALLY DECEIVING           indicator for religious validity.                These things are similarly true for followers of most           other major world religions, including Islam.                Thirdly, the primary function of each Divine Master is           to tune His Initiates into the "AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM" or           "SOUND CURRENT", (referred to as "THE WORD" in John 1:1-5,           and as "The River of Life" in Revelation 22:1), and to           personally guide each of them thru the upper levels of Heaven           while they are still connected to their living physical           bodies by a "silver cord".                TRUE Salvation, which COMPLETES a Soul’s cycles of           REincarnation in the physical and psychic planes, is achieved           only by reaching at least the "SOUL PLANE", which is five           levels or Universes above the physical universe, and this           canNOT be done without the help of a PHYSICALLY-Living Divine           Master.                One such Divine Master physically alive today is a           Tibetan, Rebazar Tarzs, one of five LIVING Masters for the           "Eckankar" organization, now headquartered in Minneapolis,           (P.O. Box 27300, zip 55427; 1-800-568-3463; www.eckankar.org ).                Another Divine Master is Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, now           living in Punjab, India, and is associated with the Radha           Soami "Sant Mat" organization.  There are others.                One of the classic books on this subject is the 458+           page book "THE PATH OF THE MASTERS", written in 1939 by Dr.           Julian P. Johnson, a theologian and surgeon who spent the           last years of his life in India studying under and closely           observing the Sant Mat Master of that time, Maharaj Sawan           Singh Ji.  ( ONLY $3.00 PPD. from Science of the Soul Study           Center, 4115 Gillespie St., Fayetteville, NC  28306 )                Several of the Eckankar books, including some authored           by Sri Paul Twitchell, can be found in most public and           university libraries and some book stores, or obtained thru           inter-library loan.  The two books "ECKANKAR–THE KEY TO           SECRET WORLDS" and "THE TIGER’S FANG", both written by Sri           Paul Twitchell, are ALSO CLASSICS.                Many Christians are likely to confuse the Divine Masters           with the "Anti-Christ", which is or was to be a temporary           world dictator during the so-called "last days".  But the           Masters don’t ever rule, even when asked or expected to do so           as Jesus was.                People who continue following Christianity, Islam, or           other orthodox religions with a physically-DEAD Master, will           CONTINUE on their cycles of REincarnation, between the           Psychic Planes and this MISERABLE physical world, until they           finally accept Initiation from a PHYSICALLY-LIVING Divine           Master.           RE-INCARNATION                The book "HERE AND HEREAFTER", by Ruth Montgomery,           describes several kinds of evidence supporting REincarnation           as a FACT OF LIFE, including HYPNOTIC REGRESSIONS to past           lives [about 50% accurate; the subconscious mind sometimes           makes things up, especially with a bad hypnotist],           SPONTANEOUS RECALL (especially by young children, some of           whom can identify their most recent previous relatives,           homes, possessions, etc.), DREAM RECALL of past life experi-           ences, DEJA VU (familiarity with a far off land while travel-           ing there supposedly for the first time on vacation), the           psychic readings of the late EDGAR CAYCE, and EVEN SUPPORTING           STATEMENTS FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE including Matthew 17:11-           13 KJV (John the Baptist was the RE-INCARNATION of Elias.)           and John 9:1-2 KJV (How can a person POSSIBLY sin before he           is born, unless he LIVED BEFORE ?!).  [ Use the "KING JAMES           VERSION".  Some later versions are PER-VERSIONS ! ]                Strong INTERESTS, innate TALENTS, strong PHOBIAS, etc.,           typically originate from a person’s PAST LIVES.  For example,           a strong fear of swimming in or traveling over water usually           results from having DROWNED at the end of a PREVIOUS LIFE.             And sometimes a person will take AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE to           another person being met for the first time in THIS life,           because of a bad encounter with him or her during a PREVIOUS           INCARNATION.                The teaching of REincarnation also includes the LAW OF           KARMA (Galatians 6:7, Revelation 13:10, KJV).  People would           behave much better toward each other if they knew that their           actions in the present will surely be reaped by them in the           future, or in a FUTURE INCARNATION !           PLANES OF EXISTENCE                The physical universe is the LOWEST of at least a DOZEN           major levels of existence.  Above the Physical Plane is the           Astral Plane, the Causal Plane, the Mental Plane, the Etheric           Plane (often counted as the upper part of the Mental Plane),           the Soul Plane, and several higher Spiritual Planes.  The           Soul Plane is the FIRST TRUE HEAVEN, (counting upward from           the Physical).  The planes between (but NOT including) the           Physical and Soul Planes are called the Psychic Planes.                It is likely that ESP, telepathy, astrological           influences, radionic/psionic effects, biological           transmutations [See the 1972 book with that title.], and           other phenomena without an apparent physical origin, result           from INTERACTIONS between the Psychic Planes and the Physical           Plane.                The major planes are also SUB-DIVIDED.  For example, one           of the 150 sub-planes of the Astral Plane is called "Hades",           and the Christian Hell occupies a SMALL part of it, created           there LESS THAN 2000 YEARS AGO by the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH           by some kind of BLACK MAGIC or by simply teaching its           existence in a THREATENING manner.                The Christian "Heaven" is located elsewhere on the           Astral Plane.  Good Christians will go there for a short           while and then REincarnate back to Earth.           SOUND CURRENT vs. BLIND FAITH                The Christian religion demands of its followers an           extraordinary amount of BLIND FAITH backed up by little more           than GOOD FEELING (which is TOTALLY DECEIVING).                If a person is not HEARING INWARDLY some form of the           "SOUND CURRENT" ("THE WORD", "THE BANI", "THE AUDIBLE LIFE           STREAM"), then his cycles of REINCARNATION in this MISERABLE           world WILL CONTINUE.                The "SOUND CURRENT" manifests differently for different           Initiates, and can sound like ocean waves on the sea shore,           tinkling bells, running water, buzzing bees, single note of a           flute, a rushing wind (as in Acts 2:2 KJV), deep humming           sounds, higher pitched buzzing sounds, many violins, various           heavenly music, or other similar sounds.  In Eckankar,           Members start hearing it near the end of their first year as           a Member.  This and other experiences (such as "SOUL TRAVEL")           REPLACE blind faith.           ADVANTAGES OF ECKANKAR                Eckankar has several ADVANTAGES over Sant Mat, including           the following:                (1) Eckankar Initiates have the SPECIAL UNIQUE PRIVILEGE           of being able to WORK OFF much of their negative karma during           their DREAM

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